Saturday, November 23, 2019

Newark version of COL found

Apparently, some of the culties have gone to Newark, CA. adjacent to Fremont, and have had their LWS building there, and possibly a front for a studio, but it is not nearly as big as it was in the heyday.

A recent post by an ex cult member identified the half mast flag story, and it was about some Korean leader who died, not anyone in the organization.

As far as we know, the honorary doctor is still living, and is fast approaching 74 next February.

Well, more later.

Tuesday, September 17, 2019

Inside Walmart? Really, COL?

Just thought to comment today on some wrongheaded locations for the former COL, such as the web site that links it to Albrae in Fremont, where it is 'inside Walmart'. How does that work? Walmart is not going to put your academy inside itself.

And Technology Place, your old location, is now a swim academy.

And Orchard Parkway, San Jose location is an unrelated computer company.

And Minis Circle, Milpitas is an audio insurance place.

Bt all of these have JSW or COL numbers associated with them. What the hey?

Just say, theoretically someone wanted to train there. They would call those numbers and get some weird answering machine or person? Hu?

Tuesday, June 11, 2019

Abridged verion of Bullshido archive elsewhere

Jane has published the remaining abridged version of the Bullshido archives of College of Learning Declassified.

It can be found here. https://www.blogger.com/profile/05466356634880965065

Is College of Learning still a Cult?

If you are reading this and wondering, what does this person think she is doing? Who is she? What's in it for her?

Nothing is in it for me, not fame, not fortune, and not reviews. This is about educating the masses to the dangers of letting any self proclaimed guru direct your lives. If anyone tells you they know better than you, that's a red flag.

Maybe it is worse now that the cult has gone under the radar? Maybe not. Maybe it's better, because now there isn't a place online for them to claim the guru is amazing. Let us not forget, she is as prideful as ever, somewhere else. She can move to remote places, but that makes it worse, for their members.

My site will not be posting the JDMS or Clare stuff, but if you want to read it, you can go to My Days in a Bay Area Cult.

I was there after them, obviously.

They can't get away with the same stuff they used to. When Clare broke the story of the exhausted students getting a little ankle bracelet thing if they fell asleep, one of the then current cult people actually read that, and used it against them. She was later kicked out, but she used it. She kicked the guy putting on the bracelet in the face, and then she was kicked out of COL!

Why don't the cult members go to the police? That's really hard to do for them. They have nothing when they go in there, and all they earn is immediately given over to the company, or to the school. They can't just go to the cops.

More or less, people leave amicably now, ever since Bullshido exposed them, for years.

They knew about BS as early as 2006, and with all the stuff going on behind the scenes, did have intense classes about it. The guru was livid. The instructors are lying if they claimed they didn't come there frequently. A dozen of them posted there, using aliases, on company hours. One of them even remained long enough to berate his fired boss about his work skills.

The brainwashing seemed to have started with all that ki energy and stuff, all that mysticism and higher purpose stuff, where actually the higher purpose was to feed the coffers of the guru.

People who were rich and also niave were quickly recruited, and there were caes of some of them rooked out of their money.

Humanitarian awards and acclaims were usually bought with student endorsement and money, and employees, which should be unethical at best. They would outright lie, claiming the New York Times or Forbes, or some other prestigue rag, had given them an award or but them on  best list, when they called it in all along.

If you confront the guru, she will claim she is being pursecuted for being a female, and if then you pry on, she will bring up the default cancer, but the thing is, it seemed everyone her age gets cancer. It has nothing to do with if she was good at running a business. It's just not relevant. She craves attention and wants to rule the world, among other outlandish things.

She did control relationship, the marriages of her top people, and the lives of her lower caste students.
Look up Shadow Dancer's story. 

Ironically, she may have an honorary degree, or even an honorary great title, but she doesn't practice what she claims at all, and used to throw tremendous ego fits including infamously the 1997 incident, the 2006 AdamG incident, and the melted down masters meeting in 2011.

No way could the 34 main posting ex students, or the 200 other ex students, have made all of that up for spite. They meant to educate. Even Bemused, who had the biggest gripe next to Shadow, was not out to destroy the cult, but out to educate others. Shadow and the like, maybe they were, but with good reason.

JDMS was forced to fast after being led out into the rain during a guru led hissy fit incident which led to her eventually leaving COL in 2003.

Back in Vermont, Failed Sudent was nearly rooked into several of her crazy deals.

In the 1990s, JJ Halpin and others were rooked into the IDN scam.

You can read any number of stories. They are all out there. You can ignore some of them, sure, but note if you ask the cult to be honest, they will not be.

Yes, it is still a cult. You've been told. 

Jp



 




Addendum about Archives

These are meant as an archive for educational purposes, so people don;'t join a cult. They are not meant as some sort of slander or gossip site. The events the people in the archive witnessed are true to their experiences and opinions.

If some names were used without permission, note they are old names and these events are old, and could not in any way harm existing persons or organizations.

The archive will not be including events from KitFillet's archive, as that goes into more detail. This is where the later stuff would be anyway, and to be reasonable, she did not come into the forefront until 2012 when asked to participate in the cult slaying.

As some of the other posters suggested, someday there would be a web where the COL cult could not hide, and that they would be questioned each time there was any sort of demo or event. You can literally type in the names of the guru and the school and there will be someone's archive about Bullshido, about us, and about dozens of other ex student sites.

I am putting the last of the supplement Bullshio archives here, not on the KitFillet site, because they are later, and affected by OKD and other sites, and became biased.

It all started in 2011 in the July event, the Legendary Masters, a failed testing tournament where they faked half the audience because they ticked off 40 former students. but they might persist even today. They did manage to remove one of the wordpress sites. It did not stop it, but emboldened it.

Free

College of Learning Bullshido Declassified Archive Part 5 2012 to 2016 selections

    1/10/2012
    carson
        Hi all! I've not been reading or posting for quite a while, thought I would check in and see how folks are doing! I read back a few pages - Some things just never change! And to Bemused- TYK lied to both my ex and the guy I was supposed to be in a relationship with on several occasions. She also lied to COL members in general about me and others on a regular basis - it is one of the ways she keeps control. When I would ask a senior (EAS) or one of the instructors, I was always told that TYK has a reason for everything she does, and I needed to just accept what was said and see what I could learn from it. I was also told that TYK can see what is in our hearts, even if we don't see it ourselves - in other words, what she claimed I said or did was in my heart, and I was guilty without knowing it. What a sad and scary way of controlling people who trust her with all their hearts!

        But life is truly wonderful now. As Bemused says, living a great life is the best revenge! I really do have to thank TYK, though - if it weren't for all the things I went through I would not be the caring, compasionate and generous person that I am now, truly enjoying every breath.

    1/10/2012
    Kathy Kim
        Everything she says is a lie. Or most of it. She only thinks of herself. I'm not bitter, that is just how I see it. In the long run she will pay the price. Those that have left are lucky to have their lives. Someone is always leaving, I like to think these posts have at least brought people to questioning and then seeing, maybe she "doesn't" really know anything. She is only for herself.

    1/11/2012
    bemused
        Hi Carson, and welcome back. It's been quiet around here.

        TYK tells so many lies that I wonder how she keeps them all straight in her mind. It's clear how she keeps people from checking with each other though--journals and fear. Of course, we were supposed to tell her the truth, unless a) she wanted us to lie, or b) she decided she knew better than we did what we were thinking. I believe that the latter is referred to as mind rape.

        What's truly tragic, though, is that lies are TYK's only source of self-esteem. What else does she have, now that her looks have faded? Okay, she's a third-degree black belt, but if that were enough for her she wouldn't have to falsely claim a higher rank. I have a new title for her, the High Priestess of Hype!

    1/11/2012
    Freewill
        TYK slowly and methodically stole our freedom and freewill. When I trained at Jung SuWon and was sucked into COL we lived in housing that was owned by TYK and the instructors. The houses were split up with males in one house and females in another. There were 15 or more people in each household and we were told by TYK who we were to room with. We weren’t allowed to drive anywhere by ourselves and we worked for Lighthouse or another one of TYK’s companies. At times we weren’t paid a salary and if we were paid a salary, the money was funneled back for COL dues or other programs. We had a shopping list of what we could eat and most of it wasn’t what would be considered a healthy diet. We were told what to wear and we didn’t buy clothes on our own. We were on call 24 hours a day 7 days a week and were always sleep deprived. We lived with the feeling that we were always working towards something greater than ourselves but nothing ever came out of all the selfless hours that we put towards events or special guests. We were never good enough and we were never appreciated. We gave up our family and friends and shut ourselves off from TV, radio and anything that wasn’t focused on TYK. We chanted TYK’s name in meditations and sat on the floor while she sat in a chair and reprogrammed our minds. We were disciplined, punished, abused and no matter what the signs were, it was difficult to get out. We thought in our minds that we were going to build a City of Light (COL) somewhere and TYK’s teachings were going to remold the world. We were not weak or stupid but were each at a vulnerable point in our lives and victims of a grandmaster manipulator.

        Keep TYK honest by continually sharing your experiences on this site and other web sites. TYK will ultimately be known for being a failed cult leader that stole the lives of so many people.

        I am thankful to have my life again and my hope is that everyone that was under TYK’s control appreciates their freedom. It is not easy starting over but there is nothing more valuable than health, family, friends and freewill.

    1/11/2012
    bemused
        Welcome, Freewill. It's good to hear from another former COL member who made it out. Post-cult life is indeed good. I would add one more item to your list: self-expression!

    1/11/2012
    Failed Student
        Thank you Freewill for sharing your experience.
        I cannot help but find a parallel between this situation and so many other cults, where every aspect of one's life is monitored and controlled.
        It is not too different from what is going on now in North Korea, with Crazy Kim #3, where compliance is instilled by the fear that eyes are watching you everywhere and at all times.

    1/11/2012
    Kathy Kim
        Freewill, glad to hear from you. I left there the last of 91. October actually, so I probably don't know you. There were 4 COL houses when I left. One belonged to es. which men stayed at. I'm glad to see you made it out ok. Each day is a new day.. Be grateful for it and if there are still people there that you care about, share what you know on here. Also what you share will maybe make people think before they join. Everyone seems to google things they are interested in, so they see this link, let all know the truth. Lots of us you may not know, but our words are all truthful, no matter how painfull they were to write or share. I'm the only one that has put my name up here, but we all know each other.
        I curious, have you read all the posts? Hope to hear more from you

    1/13/2012
    bemused
        Hi Freewill, If you don't mind, I'm curious, what made you decide to leave COL? It's okay if you'd rather not say.

    1/14/2012
    clarehoare
        Nice, a new contributor! Thanks for sharing!

    1/23/2012
    Failed Student

        I have never had access to the BB vs TYK etc lawsuit prior to yesterday. I have read the plaintiffs testament and I am both amazed and angered that TYK and her cronies were able to extort an inheritance out of a young and innocent woman.

        Apparently TYK had some interesting legal and financial assistance in this con. I would be curious to know whether those named defendants are still practicing in their respective professions.

        To say that one's inheritance is evil and the person must be cleansed of it by getting rid of it is similar to the gypsy fortune teller that tells a troubled individual to bring cash in a brown envelope and that it will be purified by the fortune teller - who of course has some under the table assistance in making the envelope switch.

        This con bears similarities to what they tried to do to me - SHS telling me to "get rid of my nest egg" and follow "grand master"...Of course, "grandmaster" wanted to be the recipient of my disgorgement of monies.

    1/23/2012
    Kathy Kim
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Failed Student View Post
        I have never had access to the BB vs TYK etc lawsuit prior to yesterday. I have read the plaintiffs testament and I am both amazed and angered that TYK and her cronies were able to extort an inheritance out of a young and innocent woman.

        Apparently TYK had some interesting legal and financial assistance in this con. I would be curious to know whether those named defendants are still practicing in their respective professions.

        To say that one's inheritance is evil and the person must be cleansed of it by getting rid of it is similar to the gypsy fortune teller that tells a troubled individual to bring cash in a brown envelope and that it will be purified by the fortune teller - who of course has some under the table assistance in making the envelope switch.

        This con bears similarities to what they tried to do to me - SHS telling me to "get rid of my nest egg" and follow "grand master"...Of course, "grandmaster" wanted to be the recipient of my disgorgement of monies.
        You were smart and most likely a little less gullible than BB. Not being there I don't know. But tyk is a very sharp con artist. And they do have everyone work on everyone

    1/24/2012
    clarehoare
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Kathy Kim View Post
        You were smart and most likely a little less gullible than BB. Not being there I don't know. But tyk is a very sharp con artist. And they do have everyone work on everyone
        I don't think she was gullible, I think as most her age, she was a lil bit naive.. but we all were when we got involved.

    1/24/2012 11:52pm,
    Kathy Kim
        I read the court records. That is so terrible how they tricked her out of her money. I hope she was able to sue and get her money plus back

    1/25/2012 7:24am,
    Failed Student
        I believe from past reports BB was successful. Probably not 100 cents on the dollar, but fairly close.
        I notice the outside helpers TYK had are all still practicing in their fields. Perhaps they received a slap on the wrist for unprofessional conduct or conflict of interest.


    6/22/2012 10:46am,
    MGD
        Hello everyone!
        I would like to say to everyone who may think this thread is all about destroying the credibility of JSW and TYK ....IT IS NOT!!!

        I am a newbie to this site and thread and have only "skimmed" over the 4 parts of "ex JSW students" thread and can honestly say that "facts" are pretty accurate and I am not surprised!

    6/27/2012
    Failed Student
        Hey JSW webmaster...your student of the week is getting a bit stale - time to get someone new on there and maybe change those videos from the nineties

    6/29/2012
    MGD
        One reason JSW failed in VT .... the citizens of the state and the Burlington community are intelligent and can see through BS.....they will give anyone a chance but if you *&$% them they will destroy you....when the community realized what She was doing the money and students started to dry up and TYK, Scott and company started crying foul making accusations about other MA schools etc......12-18 mos later they were ALL gone ..to CA

        Oh yeah BTW....I used kick Scott S. ass ALL the time during free sparring and I was 4-5 belts his junior ....he's not the great of a martial artist......boy would he get pissed ..always take it out on me when he was "teaching" with hundreds of repetitive kicks etc..it was ALWAYS worth it because the class understood he was a "wanna be" without the talent!!!!

    6/30/2012
    Failed Student
        I don't know who you are MGD, but I rather doubt you were kicking Scott's ass. Yes, he was the classic schoolyard bully type, and he could be a mean bastard, but from what I observed while I was training there, (1981-1984) no one was besting him. The last thing I want to be doing is defending this son of a bitch, but he was slavishly devoted to his training and his master and did all her bidding without question and earned his belt rank.
        ATC never made any money and was supported by money extorted from students such as myself through intimidation, shunning, and ostracism. They may have trash talked the other schools because they were conventional martial arts schools, and ATC chose to set itself apart as something different, to the point of no longer participating in tournaments. I believe this was to prevent her students from interacting with students from other schools and perhaps getting a different perspective.
        I remember only one incident in training with Scott - we were doing hand techniques. I was holding my own quite well even thougn I was only a yellow belt at the time. He ramped up his punches to the point that he injured my arm so badly that I had a black and blue mark the length of my forearm for a month afterward. Crazy Tae reamed him out for that and he was made to apologize to me.

    7/03/2012
    MGD
        Failed Student,
        With all do respect I started training at the Kyong Ae Academy of TKD summer of '79 under both Kyon Ae Fontaine and her brother Dae Yong Kim. I witnessed the break up of the academy into two schools along with the students. I believe 6-10 students went with Master Fontaine and Scott was the senior most student (red belt). I can tell you that up until he left he was good but not that good and I was able to run circles around him because I was much faster, flexible/agile than him. As long as you could get inside(jam his kicks) he was unable to counter because his hand speed was pitiful. If his speed, technique and flexibility improved then it was only AFTER the new school was opened.

        I can also state with confidence that one of the two other students who left with M. Fontaine and Scott could and did run circles around him ...his technique, speed and flexibility was FAR better than Scott's. I do not remember his name however I believe he had blonde hair and dropped out of college his sophomore year to pursue the MA as a "career". His close friend had dark hair and I believe his name was Mike. Both of these student came from fairly successful families with the blonde hair students' dad being a Dr. (I think).

    7/03/2012
    Failed Student
        MGD - now that I have a better time frame, I am getting a fix on who you are.
        In all probability, at that point in time, you probably were a match for Scott. Once he broke away from Dae Yung, Kyong Ae trained him, the blonde guy and his friend, as well as one other quite hard. That intensive training started even before the break. About 6 of us would go early in the morning to a quarry and work out for well over an hour. The blond haired one did not drop out of college, but finished his four years at UVM. He moved out of his dorm and took up residence in an apartment in downtown Burlington, shared with Scott and Mike. That also became a Buddhist temple for Kyong Ae's mother. Long story....... Yes, one person's father was a MD and the other was a NY banker.

    7/04/2012
    MGD
        Failed Student (LOL), great name I laugh every time I read it! Thanks for the brief road trip down memory lane. Wow my memory is not that bad the parent was a banker you say ... I was going to say a financial adviser but was unsure. I do recall the Buddhist temple and Bop Sa Nim (?) I only went once to the apartment and it was too "culty" then for me.

        Prior to the temple moving out of Colchester and the formation of the two separate schools TYK and I had a very long conversation at her house in Winooski and it dawned on me then that "something" was not what it seemed. This was when I started to gravitate more toward M. Kim in my training...I guess I made the correct decision!

        At this time I would like to state that I have no animosity towards TYK or the others. If I met TYK on the street I would still treat her with respect (she was one of my original instructors). I think if I met Scott I would laugh in his face but thats me also I know it would piss him....never had much respect for the guy...

        You may be getting a better understanding of whom I am but I am trying to recall who you are.....I guess if you would like to know who I am we can do that by other means....Three questions for you...What rank were you prior to the split? A UVM student? Finally were you also a part time bartender at the "Saloon"?

        Happy Fourth of July

    7/04/2012
    Failed Student
        MGD - I will take a risk and send you a private message.

    7/04/2012
    Failed Student
        MGD - I cannot send you a private message, because the Bullshido gods won't allow it. Maybe you are restricting it, I don't know. But if you want to dialogue with me, please allow for private messages. You can block those you don't want to hear from.

    7/04/2012
    Failed Student
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by MGD View Post
        Failed Student (LOL), great name I laugh every time I read it! Thanks for the brief road trip down memory lane. Wow my memory is not that bad the parent was a banker you say ... I was going to say a financial adviser but was unsure. I do recall the Buddhist temple and Bop Sa Nim (?) I only went once to the apartment and it was too "culty" then for me.

        Prior to the temple moving out of Colchester and the formation of the two separate schools TYK and I had a very long conversation at her house in Winooski and it dawned on me then that "something" was not what it seemed. This was when I started to gravitate more toward M. Kim in my training...I guess I made the correct decision!

        At this time I would like to state that I have no animosity towards TYK or the others. If I met TYK on the street I would still treat her with respect (she was one of my original instructors). I think if I met Scott I would laugh in his face but thats me also I know it would piss him....never had much respect for the guy...

        You may be getting a better understanding of whom I am but I am trying to recall who you are.....I guess if you would like to know who I am we can do that by other means....Three questions for you...What rank were you prior to the split? A UVM student? Finally were you also a part time bartender at the "Saloon"?

        Happy Fourth of July
        To address what I can publicy -
        MBF's father was a biggie in Morgan Guaranty Trust Co or it's banking affiliate. TYK got a piece of the action when MBF received his inheritance after the requirement that he marry. Apparently he signed over the money to TYK after the "I do".

        As far as that temple in downtown Burlington ( Po Gyo Dan) it was rather weird as apartments go. Originally it was SHS and MBF that lived there, and a young Japanese woman not affiliated with martial arts. She moved out soon after TYK found out the woman had an attraction to MBF. Then there was some guy that had a room there, but the restrictions on his activities were so severe he moved out quickly ( restrictions included no alcohol and taking one's shoes of before coming in to the apartment).

        As far as respecting TYK today, you are greatly mistaken to show her any kind of deference---she has ruined lives, destroyed marriages, uprooted and separated people from their loved ones and any attachments....as someone once stated on this thread......"I wouldn't fart in her direction". Dae Jung is not much better - a really bad temper and a host of other issues I will discuss with you privately.

        I made it as far as green belt before the split...then was stuck at that rank for two years thanks to TYK's power trip. I was one of the older students and I was never a bartender at any establishment.....just a consumer of alcohol from the other side of the bar.

        A happy July 4 to you too - off to see the parade, enjoy the barbeque, and have fun.

    1/06/2013
    sarangbitter
        Hello All: My name is Kim. I come from Korea. Guess what. I can confirm only this once, Kyung Ae is a fraud. She trained with my master, well ex master, many years ago. He was not an old man. He was associated with her uncle. She had the rank of black belt when she went to America with her new husband. She brings shame to Korea. Now that I am old man, I don't give a flying turd. Want to clear my conscience. She is now Tae Yun. Saw her on TV here and thought, what a load of it. I cannot believe she has convinced anyone to follow her. Not bad for a girl from Kimchung. This is the same lady. Have read posts. Very sad she is running a cult but not surprising. We do that. Run cults. Convince naive Americans to buy into the who ki energy stuff. And that whole story about her upbringing is a lie. She never saw a friend blow up. She did not get it for being a girl. Her parents were just hard on her. Korean men are like that sometimes. She is very clever though. She was a very good student and took much of the art back to America and made it popular. Too bad she didn't stay that way. Still she is living a false way. Making a profit and taking money from students and making rich students live with her for their money is very savvy, but she is going to have only her past to live back on. A true master does not need a cult of followers to make oneself look good. They do not need fame or power. Something went wrong there. I am leaving now. I am clear in my conscience. Kim.

    6/03/2013
    Failed Student
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Failed Student View Post
        I believe you misread the page. That was a reference to another company.
        Mea culpa Bemused - apparently they did go bankrupt but have reorganized and are still in business. Perchance Kimmy et al bit off more than they could chew with the Solyndra purchase. Perchance also they could find no one, or not enough people, to rent space in their studio and help them pay back their loan. On another note, the more I look at those self promoting websites, the more I realize how amateurish they are, and how anyone in the technical corporate world can take them seriously is beyond me.

    6/10/2013
    Ryanbeld
    Chapter closed
        I haven’t posted in years as I had run out of things to say a long time ago. But now being so close to marriage and starting a family of my own, I look back and find the only regret I have is posting my past online for people to see and comment on; especially the unaffiliated.

        Family is of ever-increasing importance to me and I am lucky to have the family that I do. No matter what had transpired there it bugs me to know my mom and family’s name is out on these boards and other websites. This is something I now wish our family had dealt with out of the public eye.

        I grew up and spent many of my formative years there and have been at peace with all of that for a while now. I have friends with what people would consider normal upbringings and the more I talk to them the more I find that a lot of them had situations far more unstable and unhealthy than what I’ve experienced. There were many good and fun times to go along with the weird and untraditional ones.

        I know that my experiences alone are not the centerpiece of this thread and that other people who were there have valid issues and complaints of their own that they are dealing with. But for me, I’ve grown tired of being bitter. You can lose so much of the present when dwelling on the past. And I feel like an ass for having complained about my sheltered upbringing when there are so many people in this world facing legitimate problems. There are people dying of hunger, thirst, disease, civil war. What they would give to have my problems…
        I consider this chapter closed.

    6/10/2013
    Failed Student
        I wish this site had a "like" button. Thank you Ryanbeld for sharing.

    6/12/2013
    bemused
        Hey Ryanbeld, it's great to hear that you're doing well and moving on with your life. Best of luck to you in all you do.

        Everyone handles conflict differently. Some people are more vocal, others more private. Some people want to hold those who do wrong accountable, others want to escape further conflict. There are no perfect solutions.

        I don't post here much anymore. I monitor sporadically in case someone has news or a question.

    7/07/2013
    Charliebo
        Just had to vent to people who understand....
        I went to the movies at pacific commons in fremont, and saw that they have a booth set up right when you walk in..kids...teens...
        dropped my stomach...
        Told the manager they should do their research on who they let do this..That it was a cult. I don't know if anything will happen.
        has anyone seen their booths up anywhere else?

    8/04/2013
    bemused
        Charliebo, it's good that you let the theatre manager know the other side of the story. That is really all anyone can do. The theatre manager will have to make up his or her own mind. Kimmie and her minions have their First Amendment rights to freedom of expression, but at the same time, businesses have their First Amendment rights to freedom of association. Knowledge is power, and Kimmie thrives on outsiders' ignorance of her abusive actions.

    9/09/2013
    Failed Student
        Excellent points Bemused.
        One must also look at the type of person who becomes a victim....those with low self-esteem, those with little or no family structure or support system seem to be the most vulnerable, along with a few innocents who think they are part of a greater plan.

        In my own experience with this group, it started out innocently enough...a few favors were asked, and as acquiescence was gained, the requests became demands, then orders. As the leader saw she was gaining control over her followers, she became drunk with power. So yes, abuse tends to escalate.

        I think back and wonder whether this situation could have been short circuited while still in its infancy in VT. The power of persuasion, coupled with the student enforcers of the leader, and people fell obediently into line. Still, there were many that saw the cult for what it was, dropped out and went back to their lives, but those that stayed and are still there have been "turned". Their mental wiring has been changed, and they no doubt will live happily in this delusional environment until the end.
        I did recover and have no feelings about this cult experience anymore. My life is full - with work, with play, and with friends and family.

    5/23/2014
    bemused
        I haven't been on Bullshido in months. Thanks for the post, Clare. Interesting developments. Building an obstacle course isn't such a big deal, but any use of weapons is going to frighten the neighbors. Urban California is not rural Texas. What concerns me most, though, are the blogs of escapes. I'm reminded of Jdms's story. They might just be references to this thread and its predecessors, but maybe someone in the area witnessed an escapee heading for the freeway or something.

    11/07/2014 1:40pm,
    Shadow Dancer
        It has been a long time since I’ve posted here. On a lark, I recently re-read the entire saga from front to back, and look at where I am now in comparison to those years gone by.

        To those of you in COL who may consider leaving, be assured that there is a good life waiting for you. You will go through some serious separation anxiety and then there are the stages of grief that will face you. But, ultimately you will pass through them and regain your sense of self, self-worth, happiness, and the ability to live a life on your own terms.

        I’m not proud of the raw anger, snippiness, crassness and vicious meanness I spewed on this forum. It was over the top and childish. I’m sorry for that, but I do understand where it came from. It was like lancing an infected boil. It rose to the surface, erupted, drained, and then started to heal. Now it has healed and there is a scar to remember it by, but not be troubled with.

        For what it is worth, Kyung-Ae, I forgive you. Probably that means nothing to you, but I want you to know that.

        Angela, I forgave you years ago and hope you have a happy life. Scott, I hope you value her.

        Bullshido provided a form of support-group therapy where we can/could come to let out our anger, shame, thoughts, and pain in a safe nurturing environment. To all of you here, I thank you for that.

        This chapter of my life is finally over. I look forward to the future without the negative baggage I carried for years. Best wishes to all of you here and to those of you who may escape to start your journey back to freedom and happiness.

    11/07/2014
    bemused
        Great post, Shadow. I feel much the same way. Healing takes time, but it's never too late to start. I'm happily married, well employed, and thriving among my friends, most of whom are fellow musicians.

    11/08/2014 1:19pm,
    Shadow Dancer
        Thank you Bemused!

    2/11/2015
    clarehoare
        I started this thread in 2005. I started it because when I googled "Tae Yun Kim cult" nothing came up. There were some vague usenet postings from the early 90s about opinion, but no substance.

        I started a couple threads in other spots, in the years leading up to finding Bullshido and building this thread. None ever took off.

        At first I was told by friends not to post. They were likewise perusing the internet looking for information, and found mine.. but when they figured out who the poster was, they were scared. Even this thread took several years to take off. But for the better it provided a forum for everyone who has utilized it to post their experiences and feelings.

        It was a cathartic process for me to post, read, and research. I as many of you have gone through a lot. I don't even have the courage nor time to go back through the thousands of posts and read.

        I am proud of you all. Many started by posting under pseudonyms as I did. Hiding their identity or posing as someone else, in order to not receive backlash. I lived under the assumption that Kim was the all knowing, well beyond my 3 year stint in the COL cult. But now, with the help of this thread I think there has become an open and frank discussion between us that happens, without the awkwardness it once had. We all have the same information. As well other people can find it now. They can be informed before they decide to devote their life to Tae Yun Kim and her (allegedly) nefarious organizations.

        I wouldn't be who I am today without these experiences.. But that does not mean I owe her any debt of gratitude.

        I thank you all for spending your time, and facing an at one time perceived risk by posting.. I hope that someday I can groom my thoughts on this subject into a more deliberate, concise, on point format.. but for now the 1000's of non-sequitur posts will have to do.

        I still encourage everyone to share what they have. I will happily post public documents on my blog and share pertinent information.

        I appreciate you all for participating in this project. It took years, but alas was a success.

        I can't quantify how many people have been helped by this, but I'm sure it's a lot... in addition to all of those who have posted.

        Thank you.

    7/07/2015
    bemused
        I have started training at a new Tae Kwon Do school, and oh what a difference! Two observations will demonstrate it. One is that, despite being a former world champion, this teacher is content with the title "Mr." and doesn't demand to be called "Great Grandmaster Dr." In fact, when I mentioned that title to him, the expression on his face was priceless. The other is that I walked by the school when classes weren't in session and saw him by himself, vacuuming the floor. Great Grandmaster Dr. Tae Yun Kim would never do that unless 1) it was a photo opportunity, or 2) she was shaming the minion who was supposed to be doing it.

        Speaking of minions, here's a limerick I came up with today:

        Her Highness Great Doctor Grandmaster,
        Was really a walking disaster:
        It's just the opinion
        Of one former minion,
        But I couldn't run away faster.

    9/02/2015
    bemused
        Just an update - I'm still really enjoying training at my new school. After training for two months and learning the first three of their completely different forms (they do the palgue set), I will be testing for green belt soon. Menopause has been brutal on my health and weight, but now I'm successfully fighting back. I don't mind that it will take me a while to become a black belt again.

        I have started sparring again, and I'm especially impressed by the lack of backstage drama, which is saying a lot for a school in which most of the students are in their teens and twenties. Everyone is supportive, not because they have to be or because they're trying to lure me into some inner circle, but because of simple common decency. And it helps that they're not sleep-deprived like the inner circle at JSW.

        I learned a bit of interesting gossip. When I mentioned to the wife of the head of the school, also an advanced black belt, that my former master liked to "play God," she said, "I've had that teacher." The head of this school and his wife used to train under Byung Yu. Remember him? Byung Yu once left a message for Kimmie calling her "sweet cakes" or something like that. Turns out Byung Yu got in trouble for seducing a 13-year-old girl.

    8/09/2016
    bemused
        The International Cultic Studies Association has a series of videos on cults. Most are recordings of presentations at their conferences. I'm posting this one, "Marriage After the Cult," because this therapist covers everything Kimmie did to couples and families in the first five minutes. Some "original" she was.

College of Learning Bullshido Declassified Archives Part 4 2010 to 2012 selections



Some of the Kitty Ki archives are included here and are duplicated elsewhere. They comprise three ex students.

Failed Student
6/15/2010
The story TYK told originally, in semi-private, was that she and her husband often fought and she refused him sex except for once a year (when she was younger) because she wanted to have a child. Her husband finally asked for a divorce, and she didn't want it, because 'what would people think if she couldn't even keep her marriage together?' Simple - invent a new story.
According to TYK at the time, her ex remarried and was very happy, and TYK was very happy to 'be free'. I guess that didn't last very long.
Now as 'twas told to me by TYK:
She told me of her plans to move away from Vermont and build her temple etc. I asked about her husband and she basically said he wasn't part of it, but that she and her "boys" would be together, they would take care of her, and after she died, it didn't matter about them.

In the interest of decency, I will not comment on their sex life.

kittyki
6/15/2010
Failed Student, in the beginning, when my friend trained during the early days of the Milpitas school and the infamous 'Silent Master' handbook appeared, which I have here, it said that Fontaine was still referenced. The first 'Way of the Warrior' videos had come out, along with 'ATC terminology'. The ex husband wasn't as mired in fabrications then. She knew full well they called it off. She didn't claim her in laws were 'racist' then. She did blame her parents for her upbringing, even though she came from Korea through her husband and her parents, all setting in Vermont, as you indicated, and others did. True. It's confirmed. So I cannot figure out why she insists on changing her story. Perhaps Yeoman on here years ago was right. She's just pathological.

Shadow Dancer
7/24/2010
I have a suggestion for Kimper's next Kaper. She has been thinking too small. I remember when she was given a black belt, poster, and plastic key ring from some obscure martial arts federation... she compared it to the Nobel Prize. It got me thinking...

Nominations and deliberations surrounding the Nobel prize are sealed for 50 years. Why not have Scotty send a letter to the Nobel committee nominating kimmy. Then they could claim that kimpers is under consideration for the Nobel Prize. She could blather about her knowledge of da enagi and claim that the category she is in consideration for is particle physics. LWS could claim that Dr. Kim (who heads a company that makes laser particle detectors) has extensive knowledge of the subject. She or Scottums could browbeat all of the employees into writing glowing letters about her.

Think about what a coup this would be. I'm sure the bogus nature of this will be no problem for her flexible morals.
May kimmy's salvation in the here-after be as real as her achievements in this world.

carson
7/24/2010
Oh my, Shadow, this is a good one, and would be excellent if it weren't so sadly the truth. I won't be surprised if the Nobel Prize consideration shows up on TYK / JSW web pages in the very near future. They're already claiming one 'similar to the Nobel Peace Prize'. It's so sad. She really does have some actual accomplishments. Unfortunately, all the trumped-up ones and the hype destroys the honor of the real ones.

Shadow Dancer
7/24/2010
Unfortunately, all the trumped-up ones and the hype destroys the honor of the real ones.

Hi Carson. I'm having some trouble remembering which of her honors is legit and worthwhile. I've tried to think back myself, but find that every one I can remember is either bogus or obtained under questionable circumstances. Her efforts in "Just Say No" were all terminated after her photo op was finished. All that she did was march in a parade while the rest of us did the foot work. Her participation with cancer survivors seems particularly despicable since all the the times she said she was getting cancer treatment, it was either plastic surgery or vacation trips overseas.

Hey... another idea... Scotty can create the 'Noble" prize (instead of Nobel). He could then award her with it and with her pidgeon english, no one will the know the difference between Nobel and Noble.


kittyki
8/08/2010 7:01pm,
Hello all! Jane here. Ahem. Well I'm not really Jane but you figured that out. And it wasn't Clare who blocked me out. It was the admin. But now that is worked out. It seems someone tried to prevent me from posting because they thought I was a spammer. I am not JH nor was I in the navy. All I was going with the Facebook was trying to make a neutral place where more JSW stuff could be discussed openly with no COL intervention. I was really worried I wouldn't be able to post here. 

Clare outted me (and Adam) to Fell and Palmer. The neutral site is a bust because now they know so I can't post any friends there. I should have come to you first. I should have asked your permission. And my computer was down for 2 weeks. You all assumed that I was stalking and trolling. I understand your paranoia. Believe me. The stories you had got me paranoid too. Shadow is right. I know an enthusiastic former student who wants to reach out. Now that you've pretty much destroyed his ability to reach out, and remain neutral, (Clare and Ryan), thinking him some kind of troll, well that's just great. Now he has tried to contact Shadow and the others. So far they've blocked him. I don't blame you for doing it. I only ask for your okay to remain here.

And Adam G says hi. The Adam G you were mentioning a lot, and that was a court case about a particle unit not about a domestic violence thing. Adam G had a particle counter that looked like one Lighthouse had and so got sued, but it was settled. No harm, no foul.

Trying to out me and my friend on here has also alerted JSW people who STILL read this thread. Thanks a lot. But it's still okay. I forgive you. I can't say the same for the former black belt who knew a whole LOT of dirt, and now you've closed that door.

And I have crap spelling sometimes. My name got misspelled.

kittyki
8/09/2010 1:39am,
Okay, ready for some tidbits? AB has insiders as Facebook friends but never hears from them. Only recently did AG contact him, but it was just to say hi. Heard from the third JH (mom of AT) but she did not want to talk to him because she assumed he was 'still in'. Same for AT. He is not still in. None of those 'current students' contacted him in the past 4 months. Only by luck did he happen to be at the mall when some of them were there last June, and they didn't bring up the net. Most of them ignored him. JP even said he doesn't go on the net, but just to post parkour videos. Those haven't been updated since. 

SAK continues to put up wordpress ads but they're old and no she never talks to AB, ever since an email he sent in 2009 where he 'accidentally' offended MBF after finding out he remarried and had to apologize (even though he no longer trains). I'm thinking they're just not interested in you guys as much as you think. They're watching but they don't really care. Some of them are probably looking for unkind things to report. Nothing more.

And from an outsider's perspective I think it's truly sad how TYK has behaved to couples and married people in her school, like Shadow's family and Carson and how she had to meddle with bemused at CA and then JH (AT's mom) and the like. Yeah I figured out the initials. It's not that hard. AB told me. I hope you have all found freedom and happiness somehow.

And were I actually in, I would have been in Yung Sa just after Clare left, but not for long. I would have been too old. But since I was not, no worries. I know next to nothing about JDSM and MA and since MA is out (or might not be) I'm not discussing that.

We are not here to point fingers at each other but to find new gossip on her royal hind end, Kimmy. And to that end, until later, good morning.

Another thing I did was rip into all those silly parables TYK used to write. For a day they were on the Jane site. Ryan must have thought they actually proved I was in, but actually they only proved I knew someone that had once been, which alas you knew.

"If you burn this paper it is gone. See, it no longer exists! That means it's magic." Well actually it does still exist. It is now ash. Ha. That kind of thing. AB told me and it was on Youtube also for a while.

bemused
8/12/2010 12:23pm,
Ah, relationships and acronyms. Such were the nature of TYK's control.

At first, it appeared that no one in COL had relationships except the Gs and the Ls, who were married before they joined. Although I suspected, even as a beginning student, that TYK and MM were together (this was confirmed by an earlier poster). Celibacy seemed to be the order of the day for those of us of insufficient spiritual strength.

But then SHS-ES and DP-KW were announced, and after that relationships proliferated. After the breakup of her marriage, ES was assigned to SHS; apparently she was more pleased with this than he was. KW was with DP until he left, then with MF, then briefly with AG. AG was with TYK herself, but also had encounters with HC, AP, KW, and perhaps more women. I could go on. TYK tried to regulate and limit couples' intimacy so the focus would remain on her, although there was some sneaking around behind her back. And I think she liked breaking up marriages just for the sheer power of it.

CA and I chose each other, but we were limited in how much time we could spend and how intimate we could get. At first, he seemed eager for any contact with me, but as the years went by, he became more and more of a workaholic, and finally, at the end, I wasn't sure if we still had a relationship or not. I broke up with him via email because it was the only way I could reach him at all. Sad.

Naming is what parents do, and I think TYK liked to take the place of the parents of her students. Someone in a previous post said that TYK renamed a few people who were running away from creditors, then renamed more to cover that up.

As for me, I was RS when I started training. She renamed me JS (different S). When I got married about two years after I left, I took the opportunity to change my name again. I put together the R from before COL, the J from COL, and the P from my husband after COL, becoming RJP. I tried to integrate my fractured name the way I've tried to integrate my fractured life.

Rossanna
8/12/2010
Adam G. The case with Kim was about the remote particle counter which Adam countered with a palimony suit as well as a host of other stuff. They settled out of court. The domestic violence thing was a restraining order slapped on by KW because of an incident that occurred while they were both still at LWS and in a relationship. TRO lasted a year and wasn't renewed. They have talked things out, apologies were made on both ends and it's done. This has nothing to do with Kim. It was an issue between the 2 of them and best left out of the discussion. Both have moved on and are content with their respective lives. Neither are interested in being a part of this so please respect that.


    9/19/2010
    kittyki
        Hello All:
        TYK often would misquote the Bible, and low to anyone who corrected her and said, 'That's not that it means'. Several of Jesus' deciples were asked to drop everything to follow him, but the bottom line is TYK is not and never will be Jesus. If she is implying she is 'like Jesus' there is something seriously wrong. One time I lectured her on how to actually be humble. I had to back down though. If she wants to be like Jesus then she should be willing to drop all of her old ways, her ties (to riches and such) and become like the 'least of these'. But even doing charity work (dressed in her best clothes of course) isn't going to get her into Heaven. Jesus also frowned upon those who would make themselves look good before God, such as the Pharisees and their rituals. Even though she pretends to be humble, and probably helps a few, the other sins and omissions far outweigh the rest.


    10/19/2010
    kittyki
        After TYK got her city council party and showed off her San Jose do jang and lighthouse, (2004 about), and the Koreans were running about all evening, there was a karaoke night where I attended but someone had rigged the machine ti play too fast, so it didn't go over too well. The Korean men were from the place that promoted TYK to 'Great Grandmaster', and she ordered the instructors to be extremely nice to them, but at the same time some of the then current COLs were not nice, and behind her they smarted off and made remarks about the men.

        At the time, my Dad was bedridden (as he was off and on until he passed away in 2009), but that night he had the pneumonia really bad and was sick because of that. Anyway, TYK ordered all of the black belts to come to Stargazer after the party. Nobody was to leave. They were to go with her to special training, including a gig first thing in the morning.

        She had promoted many of her black belts for the party (and dignitaries) and expected all of them to be there, so it was up from 17 black belts to about 28. She couldn't keep track of everyone, just those in COL, so because I was not in COL I made a discrete exit from the lighthouse side (of San Jose) at about midnight. (I got my official black belt 3 years earlier).

        Anyway, JW (now a master for the celebration) was entrusted with calling back any black belts who left, but he didn't get around to me until 3 am. He called my home phone at 3 am! Mom woke up. Dad wasn't sleeping anyway. He was mad that the black belts could not wait around for special class all night! This was on TYK's orders . He thought I was COL (or part time COL as you call it), so I had to be there. I gave it right back to him. I told him that my Dad was sick and that he had no business calling my house at 3 am. He was quite flabbergasted. I said I would come to the event in the morning provided he not remind me again.

        Then at about 7am I appeared at the San Jose do jang with the others, where PN was commenting on the Korean guests from last night, making racial remarks next to JW, which was bizarre he did that.

        Then SHS and the others packed in to go to Stargazer, but they said that they heard about last night and didn't need me to attend. Not that they apologized for JW's insane 3 am call, but that I had talked back to an instructor.

        A little later, MBF turned around and apologized for the 3 am call, only because he didn't realize I wasn't in COL and also Dad was sick (even though they knew from last night when I left). The word didn't get to the minions apparently and one of them acted without thinking. Nice of MBF to clear that up, but not so nice that it happened in the first place.

        I was not kicked out or anything for that, nor was any kind of 'hard training class' issued afterward. I was a part time COL, not a live in, so I was not mistreated. Also it would have looked incredibly bad if they had.

    10/19/2010
    kittyki
        It doesn't make sense that TYK would favor some people and not others, and have hissy fits and turn around and act humble, but supposing she is in fact out to lunch, that might explain it. Also she was meaner to the COL women than the men, obviously in class. I actually found it annoying that I was put in the spotlight on occasion, brought out like a trophy during testings, and made to look like 'Look at what TYK did! She helped me!' Not at what I did to train and achieve, but what TYK did to get me there. (It was a good thing she was there, but so many other people didn't get a fair shake, and they were not given credit, just for speaking out). I was somewhat protected from the craxy stuff but certainly heard about it and saw it, especially given higher rank.

        I tend to be too honest for my own good because lying is foolish, but I do exaggerate events I've seen sometimes because I get wrapped up in them.

        She didn't train students in a vacuum and there was gossip and there were words spoken many times. I was not in COL because it already sounded creepy by 1997, and the warning sings were right there. But I was a black belt and when that happened I was 'part time' in the know, so they figured I was worthy to hear even more.

        It's much better to leave on a good note there than it is to have bitter resentments. Still I understand that some of you left under extremely frakked up conditions after enduring all manner of torments. That does suck. I hope you find some kind of closure.

        It was supposed to be an honor to be called up early in the morning and told about class. Eventually they used email which could be ignored! Lol.

    10/19/2010
    kittyki
        I was just thinking of something else. Why would TYK deliberately ask for a critical mockery of herself in class? Then why would she administer a ration of bad galbi when she didn't like being the brunt of jokes? It's like, here make a 'celebrity roast of me' but don't say anything bad. Man, that was a weird class. I remember that even more vividly now since you mentioned it. I guess they didn't go after me because I didn't say anything.
        Besides, if Shadow was there he would have been the funniest of all. He really can do the imitations. :)
        'You weel take zhe schitck', 'columlus discuber amerca', 'glandmaster'...just to name a few.

    10/19/2010
    carson
        The beating incident I wrote about happened at Stargazer, and the only participants were COL. It was early in 2004, I believe, perhaps at the Lunar New Year program but I'm not sure.
        I left on Nov 1, 2004, so if the event you spoke about above (with the Korean dignateries and 3 am phone call) was in 2004, it must have been late in the year as I don't remember it. TYK did try to make us feel special if she 'gave' us such 'opportunities'. TYK would often say that she was hardest only on those who were 'strong', 'connected' with her, or whom she trusted, and whom she loved the most! It made us want to be abused as it 'proved' she cared about us and we were 'worthy'.


    11/09/2010
    bemused
        Many facts of life in COL caused mild cognitive impairment, which was reversible but chronic. The most common was sleep deprivation. TYK criticized those who pleaded for six hours of sleep, claiming that "her energy" could cause us to need less.

        Very intense exercise without sufficient rest can also cause temporary impairment. Slow exercises such as walking or yoga burn more fat, but the more intense the exercise, the more glucose it burns. The brain runs only on glucose, so intense exercise forces the brain to compete with the muscles.

        I don't think it was intentional in most cases, but our everyday diet was low in protein. At special meals at barbecue parties or restaurants we would eat meat, but most of the time we couldn't afford it. Early on when we got grocery allowances, SHS tried to limit our expenses, and later when we didn't get grocery allowances, we were on our own coping with paltry pay and excessive class fees, which squeezed out expensive foods in our budgets.

        Then there was the intentional infliction of crazy diets or fasts. Occasionally a guest athlete on a special program would be told to eat a lot of meat, but other diets used as punishments, "purifications," or weight loss programs included little or no meat, or even tofu. Some included just rice porridge for weeks on end, or one apple a day and nothing else.

        Finally, there was infliction of emotional distress in the form of humiliation, often in front of a group instructed to agree with TYK. Intense emotion undermines reason. It can also sometimes paradoxically cause euphoria after a while because of the adrenalin, sort of like skydiving does.

        A fully sharp mind is very aware of reality, including its unpleasant aspects. Cognitive impairment dulls awareness of reality, which can cause complacency, if not euphoria.

        Interesting post, Shadow. I too wish there was a way to awaken their minds. But those of us who got out show that minds do awaken, sooner or later, and more often than not.


    11/19/2010
    hyeongsa
        Shadow, clearly the first statement "A person who does what is right, regardless of what another person says" is that of one who is more a warrior and the master of their own life. I might add, this is also indicative of a person of character and integrity. This continues to be a dilemma for those still in COL. You are forced to do things that you know are just plain wrong and to agree with TYK's absurd statements.

        For example, having to apply for and accept unemployment money while working for Lighthouse. You know it is wrong and still, during those years many were doing it. Or, being told to tell someone that they looked great after TYK cut their hair and applied make-up to them, that they looked amazing while in your heart, you know that TYK just made them look really lame. OK, in the second example, maybe it could be excused simply to spare the person's feelings.

        TYK always said we must follow her blindly to show our "trust" in our master. It's one thing to believe in someone and tell them they can kick higher in order to encourage them and get them to strive. Yet it is quite another to get someone to believe that lying, cheating and stealing is OK if it is for TYK's "purpose".

        Everyone there has a conscience and having to constantly not listen to your inner voice telling you "this is wrong" causes a numbing affect as the years go by. This combined with someone constantly dictating every aspect of your life makes for a distorted view of life and reality. When you leave, this is pretty hard to deal with. You begin to question things and decisions that normal people don't even think twice about.

        I guess you had to be there to understand what I'm talking about. Or, in some kind of other cult. To those who are there and may be reading this, it isn't too late. Next time you meditate, don't put TYK in your mind and focus on her. Instead, ask God to show you the truth and seek Him. Think clearly. Find the real you and separate from the fake warrior TYK has made you to be. Like Shadow's example, which is the true warrior?

    11/20/2010
    kungfu4u
        Hyeongsa, I believe TYK called it “blind faith”. Trust in everything that I say “unconditionally” in the name of “purpose” and “God’s mission” and your soul will be cleansed from all of your past life wrongdoings. “Don’t follow as I say, then mark my words, you will repeat this life 100 lifetimes over again.”

        I recall the first time TYK told me the way to boil a frog was to apply heat to the pot slowly until the frog boils. I was brainwashed and conditioned to say “Yes M’am” by that point in my “training” and my own thinking had lessened because TYK was filling my head with what I was supposed to be thinking. Those that TYK put into the pot too quickly would see that she was trying to cook their minds and would jump out of the pot. But the rest of us that lacked something in our life ended up living a life of servitude and abuse. TYK was our abuser and she numbed our emotions, thoughts, habits, originality, relationships and tried to control every part of our lives from what we ate, where we slept, when we slept, what we did, who we associated with, who we drove with, what we listened to and more. We were told not to listen to the radio, we didn’t have access to watch TV and we were controlled in a modern society Silicon Valley cult.

        TYK’s visions of world domination, being the most successful person in the world, on Oprah, the president of Korea and impressing us with “special guests” were just more ways to manipulate us. How many special guests visited that never came of anything other than an overpriced dinner and a whole lot of lot of hard work?

        Someday the real story of TYK will be on Discovery or some program that will show her life from Korea to Vermont, from the Silicon Valley Master to the Silicon Valley Micro Cult Leader living within the Fremont foothills mind controlling, brainwashing and abusing her “disciples”.

    1/29/2011
    kittyki
        The first year I left I did have a lot of dreams where I was 'late for class' and got into trouble like I was a junior belt or something. When I was really into training and a young adult I had dreams about being lost or searching for others who were lost there. Yeah, it doesn't make sense to analyze it, but it was so vivid! And to an extent I wasn't able to be hypnotized, so I guess my subconscious said, if you really weren't sucked in, why did you not do very much to get out? Well, obviously TYK had a lot of influence and it would have been impossible to buck the system. I've never had naughty dreams about her. Eeewww! Just the thought of that even when I was 20 and a green belt is nasty! I knew I couldn't have handled it. Ha. FS, I never dreamed about me harming them but about others doing it. I was never that angry about them because I didn't know really what horrors were going on inside those COL houses, just rumors, until I was a black belt for a while and heard rumors. Then this site and others appeared. Heh.

    4/15/2011
    kittyki
        I met killings as in 'violence mobs do'. Nobody has been offed. That's a good thing. Too bad nobody went to the police with that info at the time. What was that, 25 years ago? She hasn't done it since. Has she? Can you prove this to say some authorities? Kathy has some kind of special connection and for some reason got picked on more than anyone else. Not sure why. Maybe she knew too much.

        The only thing that ever happened to me while I was training is a mistaken identity. Someone flattened one of my truck tires with a sharp object during class and after class, everyone heard about it, because it was one of those new '95 Dodge Ram trucks and it had new tires. They got the wrong student. I was loyal at the time and did not make waves. I was 24. I didn't think anyone at the school did it. Kathy mentioned then that some vandalism happened to her around that time, and I thought maybe the same vandals accidentally mistook my car for a bad student's car. But there was no way to prove anything. It was parked next to the police station and everything. Could have been someone thought it was a cop's car. I don't know. But the station was right across from the do jang and the truck out the window.

        So it is also likely that the same fools did Kathy's car and then mine later. Could be it was just jerk kids. It wasn't far from a high school. Could be in her case it was just kids. In your case however, could be it was some of TYK's personal thugs.

        FS, what was it like in the neighborhood of your do jang? Was it a good area? Was there a slim chance it could have been just jerk kids? Or did the culprit had the balls to sign his name on the brick? That would get his ass in jail, one would think.

    4/15/2011
    kittyki
        The idea that TYK blatantly ordered her sycophants to knowingly discredit or vandalize others if messed up. That was the most shocking thing on the blog. The active students did not see her hissy fitas directly. I saw some of them toward the end of my tenure. But I'd lay odds that they're capable of it, judging by their insane comments in reply to you guys years ago, and that they were actively trying to off the cultmaster site (which they did) and pissed off San Jose (which they did) and Milpitas before that. The shady pyramid scams and the incidents of people losing millions were somewhat known to students, but were spun to make it look like they were something else.

        They even made it sound like Kathy was going to off TYK once. She sas out of town! I remember that, not just her mentioning it on the blog, and that TYK had a fit about it in class. So there was this odd thing. I think she must have known too much from being in COL so they made up stuff about her.

    4/16/2011
    Kathy Kim
        I made several police reports....they came after me many times. Yes she really hates me. I knew secrets, and I let them all out. I won an IRS case against her. She tried saying I was a contract employee...they didn't want to pay my taxes. Good thing I keep paperwork..I won the case. She had to pay and was fined. Spencer left her because of her lies. I'm the one that told him, and he confirmed the lies and got the annulment. They tried to scare me and keep me from testifying. That is the main reason she hates me. I showed the police where scott wrote on a piece of paper about FS and checking her out and her car. I also told them who was told to do that. I heard about everyone on the roof looking for me to cause her harm...I proved I was in North Carolina........I wonder who got in trouble for that?

    4/17/2011
    kittyki
        Hi Kathy! I do remember the roof incident, or one of them, and no, it wasn't everyone on the roof. CL, MP, maybe KMC, and the like, but not everyone. I didn't go up onto the roof. None of the juniors went. I do remember MP playing guard during testings and TYK being paranoid about you. I didn't really think you were around, or like that.

        They were probably on their best behavior during the 19 years in Milpitas, when the city came around or when the cops did, because the police station was right there on the corner.

        They spun a lot about former students on the self-discovery weekends, but never really named FS. I really don't know who you are, FS because we never met. And that's all right.

        Kathy, I saw bemused recently. She was doing a CD night at a local coffee shop. The coffee shop dream I had must have been a preamble to going to that night, but it was different.

        I remember about Spencer too, and about Adam G (both are about my age). Also there was the time MH saw my parents and I at an ice cream parlor in the 1990s and was upset about losing her money. That was as it turned out the girl who lost a million or something to TYK. We did not at the time put it together. Nor did we when the scams started. I just didn't choose to join the scams, like IDN, which they didn't like.

        But they never hated me because I was like their poster boy and training helped me a lot, but I was protected to an extent from all the seamy under the table stuff. Regular students were not privy to the COL stuff. I had only a part time thing there, and never lived with them, so they never controlled me.

        Also it helped that my Dad was a former local politician and they didn't dare do anything or the city would get mad.

        They did not act like a mob when they were doing business as usual, but they were likely into some interesting naughty bits.

        I think big MP liked to pretend he was a secret agent because he liked James Bond. He still has on those glasses on his Facebook.

    4/20/2011
    Shadow Dancer
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by bemused View Post
        It may be harder to leave now than it was when I did. The economy is bad, they've been in for much of their lives, and LMBP has various ways of trapping them, including marrying them with each other.
        She also has them believing that the outside world is out to get them and that their only safe refuge is with her, as she has mystical abilities to read portents and omens. They are now all absorbed children living in a tree-house believing that they are alone and brave.

        LMBP has gotten them away from the ability to think for themselves. They look to her for advice on what to eat, who to date, what to wear, where to work, where to live, when to wake up, when to go to bed, who to talk to, who to shun, what the bible says, what car to buy, who to donate to, how to vote, etc. The really ironic thing is that they think that they are the masters of their lives. She reinforces her control with alternating hissy-fits and a few words of praise. They literally cannot survive without her. In some ways, they are better off with her now as they are unable to live in the real-world. Taking them away from the only environment they have known for decades would probably cause more harm than good.

    4/20/2011
    bemused
        Failed Student is the optimist, Shadow Dancer the pessimist. I tend to agree with Failed Student. All the minions still have the potential to find themselves and leave. Whether they will is anyone's guess. For me, leaving was hard at first, but I am stronger for having rebuilt my life.

    4/27/2011
    Shadow Dancer
        In all honesty, do we really expect kimmie's foundation to be of any benefit other than to her? She needs a continual chorus telling her how generous, or talented, or beautiful, or wise, or skilled she is. She did something similar with the "Just Say No" rally in DC. Everyone was pressured into going out and grovelling for donations. Kimmie marched through the streets of Milpitas with cheering throngs of students behind her. We all then went to DC. She stayed in a glorious hotel and all the minions who did the work got to sleep in a cockroach haven. At the Mall, kimmie shouted her blather and some students broke a few bricks and did a few forms. Kimmie got her photo op, the students got the bill, and no one ever mentioned the "Just Say No" program again, as it had served it's purpose of 'promoting glandmaster'.

    4/30/2011
    Failed Student
        In Vermont, TYK (Kyong-Ae) used to squeeze the last drop of energy out of her minions also. There was a Korean master in Florida (who, by the way, had a mail-order PhD) which he proudly displayed at his dojang. Yes, I know his name but will not publish it here..

        Anyhoo, SHS, MBF, WHH drove from Vermont to Florida to be at the grand opening of his new dojang. They were exhausted from no sleep, but madame made them do some breaking and sparring. It went badly - SHS usually could break bottles, but not on this occasion. The sparring was in slow mo...After the event was over and we had some food that was brought by parents of the students, we headed north - five of us packed into SHS's VW Jetta...non-stop, each of us driving for a few hours. 
At one point, somewhere around CT, MBF did drift off the road but woke up in time, and gave me the wheel. It was one ride from hell from start to finish...somewhere in the south, SHS got a speeding ticket and we paid up on the spot rather than wait for a few days and go to court. What a racket that is, but in truth, he was speeding. Rather than use the interstate to avoid NYC, SHS decided to go through all that traffic, tunnels, and noise, which added a few more unpleasant hours to the trip. Of course, madame snoozed all the way as she did not have to drive. When we finally reached VT, another diversion...instead of getting to our homes, madame decided to go to a local quarry where we (illegally) swam and trained during the summer.

        Of course, I was tricked into even going on this trip...I flew down to FLA with her and was supposed to fly back the next day, but surprise, surprise - her three minions appeared, and I was obligated to take the grueling trip back with them. Not only did I have to stay awake, I had to listen to some damned tape of a Buddhist priest chanting - over and over again, until I thought I would go insane. Talk about brainwashing.......
        qui spiritum non moritur

    6/30/2011
    bemused
        Quite a few people have made dents in her armor. Her lover cheated on her, so she kicked him out and then sued him. He countersued, and the legal fight left them both financially drained. Before that, she tried to marry the son of a rich man, who was half her age, and when he found out she was lying about her fertility he annulled the marriage. Kimmie also talked a young heiress out of her inheritance, then the heiress sued to get it back and was apparently successful. And there have been various other legal skirmishes along the way. She has deep pockets due to the contributions of money and labor from her followers.

        The biggest dent I witnessed was an episode of Inside Edition that aired in 1998. It accused Kimmie of being a cult leader, but for those of us who really were "inside," it barely scratched the surface. Still, it gave her lots of bad publicity and caused a mass defection from her inner circle--about a third of the members left.

        Much earlier, when Kimmie was in Vermont, some students conspired to take over her school, and she kicked them all out. Kimmie tells it like the student leader was trying to start his own cult, and maybe he was, but she probably did something to provoke them along the lines of what she did later in California.

        But none of these situations have humbled her or caused her to reflect on her actions. Sure, sometimes she cries about the latest knock she has taken, but this is to evoke pity, not to repent. And often these situations make her worse because of that persecution complex I mentioned. Not only that, but if she were physically attacked she could really play the sympathy card, and probably get a lot of sympathy. Regardless of the attacker's intent, he would most likely come off looking like a thug.

        There's no hope of stopping her from being motivated to act as she does. Maybe she'll bilk the wrong rich student, be dragged into court, and end up truly broke. Maybe the violence or fraud will go too far, someone will call the cops, and she'll end up in jail. But these scenarios are unlikely, given the secrecy around her and the shame that ex-students often feel. The best hope of stopping her is to inform people of her true nature and actions, so fewer people will be taken in by her. It is said that light is the best disinfectant.

    6/30/2011
    Failed Student
        If I may add a bit of input from Vermont -
        No one conspired to take over her school..At the time the school was her brother's and she taught there also. It was SHE that broke off from the brother and started her own school, with my help and that of SHS,WHH, MBF, and RLL. (There was also some unhappiness with her brother from some other students prior to that and they started their own informal group, which was led by a male orderly af the medical center here) There are some things I cannot post about the brother - well I could - but in the interest of keeping to the primary subject of madame, I won't.

        As far as that expose back in 1998, I received a phone call from the media but I did not respond to the message on my answering machine. At that time, I had no interest in giving my input or going out to California at the media's expense and being filmed for this. It would have come to naught anyway. I have only started speaking out since I found the Bullshido thread which I have found very enlightening - finding out that madame progresses to get nastier as she ages and gains more followers. I am glad however that a group of her followers did break away at the time of the expose.

    7/25/2011
    Kathy Kim
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Failed Student View Post
        Oh fer crissakes - I don't know who did the write up for TKD Times about this event, which was dated July 13, but I see madame hauled out all the politicians she could, as well as that questionable Order of Constantine person, etc etc. for the event. Also a Catholic priest for an opening prayer...WTF?

        Maybe a talk with my bishop about the cult she runs will find out why a priest is there? Priests, just like people that are newly joined there, don't know the truth about her. Because you can have no other Gods before you. You certainly can't bow to someone. Christian's believe that everyone is equal. She does not promote that. Where is her humbleness. I think I will check into it. You can't be half a Christian. And if you don't follow what you are supposed to do, you will suffer twice as bad when you die. Because you openly know the truth and don't follow it. Just like when you take communion and you are not in the state of grace, One of the worse sins. Does she read that in the Bible? Or does she puts her spin on it, like she did on everything else? I love my Catholic faith and I really don't like when someone doesn't respect it. You don't have to be Catholic...but if you profess to be, you need to be practicing it totally by God's rules, not your own. I will get back to you when I find out anything.

Michael's final post, or was it him?

    8/24/2011
    kittyki
        Dear Users of BS: You have been flogged. I have hacked into former student Adam Browne's accounts and have used his password to log on as Kittyki. I have done so off and on since 2010 and he never checked, assuming his friend wrote all the longer stuff. He is such an ass. Now his friend has dumped him because I hacked the guy too. I used to be a student at JSW too so some of the stuff I recalled. I did not like his comment about other students, especially where I was mentioned. I think he is evil for posting about how TYK is bad. The cult has not existed since 2007 but you all persist. I will stop coming here now that Adam has severed all ties to his friend, who I was after also. I will also close off this password. Phrost had best to delete kittyki, or keep him around for his amusement. I meant to hurt Adam because he was mean in sparring. He was my instructor once and always wanted me to do better. Nothing pleased me. I blame him and them too for this. I am sorry for making fun of TYK but we were told what to do and say. That is true. I xstole his journals during the move and also from his computers, of which I then crashed. I also used a proxy server to make it look like it was him. I was easily abile to do this. I am not Adam. He is an ass. I do not blame you for outing me, bemused. I am kind opf grateful. Now you knopw we were, are, and still watching, but in good conscience I can no longer post here. Sorry I guess to Asdam. I still hated him as a teacher ut thast's no reason to hack him. I am being told to write this by my Mom. She told me if I did not write this I was going to be grounded for a year. I stopped training long ago but still had mad skills and was using them to help yungsa and col. No more. Screw them too. And Sarah, I'm not Adam. Sorry if I told you to f off. MP.
        *My son is stikll going to be grounded. I can't believe he did this to Adam Browne. Apologies. I will not give my name.

        In other words, when a sociopath is called to account, he or she typically turns it around and acts as if he or she were the victim. This is the classic pity play.

    9/13/2011 3:46pm,
    bemused
        It's another slow day, so I'll continue with the same line of thought.
        After SE left, after DP left, after Inside Edition aired, and after a few other crises, Kimmie called COL together for a good cry. She talked about how she was only human and trying to do the best she could (even though we couldn't hope to understand her exalted wisdom). She said she wished that these ungrateful people who had betrayed her had talked to her before taking the actions that they did (as if she would have acted on any advice). She even asked COL to tell her if she had done anything wrong (of course, everyone said, "Oh no Ma'am!").

        I thought at the time that she was revealing her real self to those privileged students whom she loved and trusted the most. Looking back, it seems like just one more way that she kept her students from questioning her actions. After all, it's the height of meanness to kick someone when they're down, especially if they're so tearfully, pathetically remorseful. Even to have said, "Maybe you shouldn't have..." with preventive intent would have been considered presumptuous and insensitive.

        After JL and ML vanished one day, she begged COL "not to leave like a thief in the night." Trouble is, she set it up so it was hard to leave in any other way. If you tried to leave you got the pity play. If you left and came back, you groveled for the privilege of getting disciplined. Jdms's story (in part 1) of leaving is a good example. Kimmie reeled Jdms back in with tears, sweet talk, and promises of reform that she never intended to and didn't keep.

        I tried to leave honorably but was guilt-tripped when I tried to give two points of mild feedback (MBF compared it to "two thumbtacks in her arm"). I was asked to write my own Lighthouse letter of reference for them to sign, but it was then edited down to triviality (my end run was to contact DP). About my musical aspirations Kimmie said, "Follow your dream," but it was clear from her tone of voice that she was not supportive but contemptuous. What dream could possibly be better than hers?

        I didn't consciously intend to manipulate Kimmie into letting me go, but that was the result. When she told me to find an apartment, I didn't beg her to reconsider. If she had wanted me to stay, SHE would have had to beg ME, which she wasn't prepared to do. I guess she doesn't like to pull the pity play if it means swallowing her pride. Or maybe she just shrewdly assessed my value. I guess I wasn't very useful to her at that point, because to my knowledge she didn't cry a puddle of tears over me.

    9/13/2011 4:09pm,
    Failed Student
        TYK is manipulative to say the least. I saw that here in Vermont in my own experience. She suspended me from martial arts training for three months, admonished everyone not to have any contact with me, but within hours of my banishment she was trying to reach me by phone. She wanted it both ways - wanted me to be in touch with her although no one else was allowed to do so. Her plan was to make me feel miserable about not being able to train and then have me come back after the three months and be groveling at her feet, grateful to be back in the fold. It didn't work, I reveled in my freedom and have never looked back. That is not to say I still don't have occasional nightmares about this, but that whole experience has made me a very strong person. No one dares  with me again...either from the cult or any other situation.

    9/13/2011 4:53pm,
    bemused
        Every COL student who leaves represents a loss of investment and revenue to Kimmie, and without her COL students she wouldn't have Lighthouse, her only cash cow, yet when her mistreatment of a student comes back to bite her in the butt, she doesn't learn.

        All the yelling, humiliation, overcharging, overworking, underpayment, surveillance, and guilt-tripping isn't just unethical, in the long run it's counterproductive. She might not realize it, but she creates more fear than respect. When students lose their fear, they leave.

        Groups that treat their members well have turnover too, but they don't end up with more disgusted former members than current members and a collection of appalled bystanders to boot.

    9/13/2011 5:05pm,
    Permalost
        I've noticed that the people who post on this thread don't post anywhere else on Bullshido even though the posters have been around for years, and it got me wondering if these cultish martial arts groups attract people who like small, secluded groups for whatever reason. An insular nature allows people like TYK to operate a martial arts school that's batshit insane but also off the radar of the larger martial arts community, that talks to each other across schools and styles. I always kinda figured that these pockets existed because of a charismatic leader that kept people from talking, but I'm wondering if it has to do with the type of personality of the people that stick around too. You guys have been here for years but only talk amongst yourselves about some crazy bitch from back in the day. Of course, its also possible that the whole experience soured you guys on the martial arts entirely so you're not really interested in them anymore.
        I hope I don't sound disrespectful, but this thread is kind of a weird anomaly on Bullshido and I'm trying to figure it out.

    11/01/2011 12:40pm,
    bemused
        I was talking the other day with someone about how Kimmie broke up families and managed to keep her minions from having more children despite allowing a few very controlled relationships to exist. This prompted me to look at the misunderstanding CA and I had over whether to have children with a new perspective.

        Maybe Kimmie knew perfectly well that I wanted to discuss with CA whether to have children and if so when. Maybe she knew perfectly well that I wasn't wanting kids right away. If she did know these things, there are possible reasons why she decided to tell CA something different anyway (in other words, to lie).

        First of all, she didn't want us having kids, period. To even consider it was to violate her hidden agenda.

        Second, making such life-direction decisions was her prerogative as our "Master." I was usurping her authority by initiating the discussion, even if I included her in it via my journal.

        Third, she didn't like her followers being closer to each other than each was to her. To make a joint decision on something so intimate might have brought us closer together even if we decided not to have kids.

        She probably was compelled to put a stop to the discussion. So how best to do it? She didn't want to reveal that she didn't want anyone in COL having more children ever, so she couldn't just tell us no. She didn't want to validate my point of view because of the second and third points. Telling CA that I wanted a baby right away scared CA so much that it ended the discussion. She didn't have to reveal her agenda, nor did she have to give us authority over our own lives or a chance to get too close. It worked perfectly.

        I'm still too naive. That anyone, even someone as manipulative as Kimmie, would outright lie, is usually the last thing to occur to me.

        That CA believed her and not me showed that he was being a good COLie. It also showed that our so-called relationship was a bad joke.

        For those who didn't read my previous posts, I was prepared to ask that we not have kids due to a health concern I have, and in the end I made precisely that decision alone. I only brought it up in case he really wanted to have kids badly, in which case I would have considered it to make him happy.

        The final irony is that Chica told me CA is married now and trying to have kids. Now that he's out from under Kimmie, he can do that, and I wish him and his family well.

        In my marriage, such convoluted misunderstandings simply don't happen. We can talk to each other about anything. And we don't have a third party telling us what to do or think.

    11/01/2011
    bemused
        CA got so scared that he avoided me. This prompted me to break up with him, via email because it was the only way I could deliver any communication. Not long after that, for reasons having nothing to do with CA, I left COL but remained a regular martial arts student. Then Kimmie started trying to get me back in a relationship with CA while refusing to consider my demands that he change, which I found absurd.

        I've gone through all that before in previous posts. What I still don't understand is why, and the possibility that Kimmie outright lied to CA about my intentions makes her attempt to reconcile us all the more perplexing--and galling.


    11/08/2011
    Kathy Kim
        She just teased you with a relationship, She can't have anyone that cares for someone more than her! Another reason there are no children