Failed Student said, “Interesting that you should mention that (the music) Bemused, because I have had the same experience. My senses are sharper when it comes to detecting insincerity, and I can read people extremely well.
“The one thing I noticed with Tae Yun was how she could turn on a dime when it came to emotions. She told me she had been an actress in Korea, so I attributed that talent to maybe "method acting". In any event, when she tried to get me back into her sphere, she went from hot to cold, just as apparently she did with Adam G as he was leaving her. When I would not return, she became vengeful, as attested to by Kathy Kim in an earlier post, going so far as to try and find my location and do some property damage. This was small time compared to what she is trying to do to Adam G, but the pattern remains the same.”
bemused said, “A visiting Korean Christian pastor baptized all of us in her backyard pool in our martial arts uniforms. I was a red belt then, and the procedure put pink stains on my white uniform (this was before she got the nutty idea of issuing colored uniforms to match the belt colors). Of course Tae Yun had to get her own sermon in too. The pastor seemed like a nice guy, but I really couldn't tell for sure because he spoke very little English.
Rossanna said, “Fact. Kristina W. is or was one of the most intelligent people in COL. In my view, She was the only one who had the title of Vice President who actually deserved it. She was one of the core team of people who worked with Adam G as they moved to get Lighthouse out of their mom n pop status into what they are today. For Tae Yun to put her down and say that she was stupid or lacked common sense just goes to show just how insecure Tae Yun got when confronted by the truth of her own stupidity.
“Having someone like KW around just reminded her about how different her life could have been had she strived and persevered like KW did in school. KW graduated with honors, was a whiz at engineering , numbers, project management, etc. Tae Yun? didn't even get past elementary school from what I hear. KW was pleasant and well liked by both men and women in the workplace without having to pretend to be something she was not. Tae Yun? got to be a grandmaster, author, speaker, etc., etc so people will even deign to speak to her, much less follow her. I have heard from a lot of people that in her prime, before her knee injuries, KW was a force to be reckoned with in Jung Suwon. One of the few natural athletes who took to the art like a duck to water. Knowing as we do now, is it a wonder that Tae Yun resented KW? She could probably kick Tae Yun's ass if she wanted to and I suspect Kim knew it.
“KW started with Kim at 17 yrs of age and came from a family that was dysfunctional to say the least. She was a shy person who was socially awkward in High School and her greatest dream was to go to West Point. She gave up that dream for her father, and gave up the rest of her dreams for Kim. She is, in my opinion, the best example of the "love bombing." technique that Kim uses. KW was young, vulnerable and was looking for the love she didn't have at home and she got a semblance of it from Kim. As with everyone else in COL, past and present, she was convinced that Tae Yun was all about doing good and helping people. When I met her, she was probably one of the most gung ho of Kim's troop. It was only later when she moved to Medford and had more exposure to how real people lived that she began to question and see just how messed up her life was and just how much she had given up for nothing.
“I, for one, am glad that she is out, if in fact she truly is.
“I still don't understand why she did what did to Adam G, what madness gripped her that made her put herself in the situation she ended up in after the poo hit the fan, and I think that it will be a while before the truth comes out, before Tae Yun's grip on her loosens sufficiently for her to actually start thinking for herself. Whenever that time comes, I hope that she has the right emotional and mental support to deal with everything and make peace with herself and move on. peace.”
Kathy said, “Kristina W you are a beautiful young woman...I hope you stay free and go on with your life. I wish I would of ran across you when you were here in Medford. I would of spoke to you, I would have invited you over. You see now, that everything she says about people when they leave, it is not true. Be true to yourself, have a happy life. You deserve it. Remember God is the only one that can judge you. And she is most certainly not God...no matter how many times she tries to be. It's hard to break away, but know that it is worth it many times over. There is true support for you on this side. At least you won't have to bow down, or should I say cow down. You decide, it's your choice. I wish you the world of happiness. You have a chance of a new beginning, one where you make the decisions. You can find peace in your heart. Take care of yourself.”
Ryanbeld said, “I am saddened to see that no one will come up here to defend their master. I know they read it and it affects them, yet they don’t have the nerve to fight for what they believe. I mean, disprove all of this if I am wrong. I would love to be wrong about all of this. If I somehow changed as a person since I left, its because of the knowledge. I would much rather have everything she did or said to have been true. prove me wrong, that’s all I ask.”
bemused said, “It's ironic that the exers have better expressed the good things about COL than the current members have. If Tae Yun hadn't been abusive, and if there were still fun holidays, beach vacations, ski trips, Self-Discovery Weekends, BBQ and pool parties, and so on, I would probably still be there. Much of the fun seems to have dried up after about 1997. I enjoyed the martial arts training and still miss it. In fact, I work out on my own semi-regularly. I also enjoyed the meditation/energy classes, which included non-COL students. Even the COL classes could be enjoyable when no one was being humiliated.
“I learned some valuable things. Living with lots of women who were very different from me taught me some social skills. So did working with regular martial arts students when I began to lead classes. I started a habit of keeping physically fit that I continue to this day. I don't know fur sure that I could defend myself in a real life-threatening situation, but I think my odds would be better because I learned to keep my mind calm while sparring. And of course, from watching Tae Yun operate I acquired a first-rate BS detector.
“I left because COL was no longer fun, Tae Yun's "lectures" were increasingly boring, I was increasingly disillusioned, I wanted to do other things like make music, and I just didn't want to be told what to do anymore. Even so it wasn't easy. I left behind everything and everyone I had known for the last 10 years. It was worth it.”
bemused said, “ Their attempts to defend their master have mostly been character attacks on exers. This is a bad tactic, only serving to show the meanness from which the exers fled. They have also recited canned "why I love my master" PR, which only shows how cultish they are. What they need to do is give testimonials about specific ways in which Tae Yun's teaching has benefited them, or describe specific COL events that anyone would view as worthwhile. But COLers are exhausted and living a lifestyle that outsiders wouldn't find attractive, so it's hard for them to make their case. Even Sarah K.'s attempt, the best so far, unintentionally revealed more cultishness than it refuted.
Her Lesson said, “From what is posted and what I have heard and seen, Tae Yun treated everyone like absolute garbage.
“Tae Yun takes pleasure in talking negative about everyone. The very first day I met her, she talked nasty about each and every person that was there and every person that wasn't there and how great she was. She told me the PM story, everyone's secrets and how she saved them.
“All energy should be put in taking her down and only the exes can do that. They are the only ones that can stop her from hurting others.”
bemused said, “She must have gotten worse since I knew her. It was months before I heard her talk trash about anyone, and I only saw her make the rounds humiliating each person after I joined COL. Back then she was as capable of dishing out flattery as she was insults. She must be really angry at COL for not making her the celebrity she longs to be if she now trashes them in front of outsiders.
“I assume PM is someone's initials. I know the story about him and his New Age parents, if that is what you mean.”
bemused said, “I remember a few private classes I had with Tae Yun in which she "balanced my energy" at the end. She lightly touched me in a number of places, including all my "energy centers" (chakras, basically). At the time I thought she was trying to purify me, but after learning from these posts things I didn't know about her before, I suspect that purification was not her motivation.”
Ryanbeld said, I am saddened to see that no one will come up here to defend their master. I'm not. I think it demonstrates the fickleness of the people in the group (sorry guys, it's true). The only believe because they are told to. bemused - Are you sure she wasn't looking for a wallet?”
bemused said, “What "purity" really means to Tae Yun is "never doubting your master." In her egocentric universe, she represents what is good, and all else is evil.
“So if she wants to have sex with someone, or to grope them, it's a sin to refuse her. Sexual desires not directed at her are forbidden unless she gives permission. It's warped, but it's consistent.
“She also doesn't seem to like people being attracted to her, however harmlessly, if she can't completely control the situation. I remember a few instances where men outside of COL expressed interest in her, and she seemed to get a thrill out of playing hard to get. One was a Korean Hollywood producer who also claimed to be a martial arts grandmaster. In COL class she played back a sweet-talking phone message he left her, then she said he wanted to dominate her and that she wasn't interested.”
bemused said, “Jacob - They also believe because they hope it will get them more of the attention they were showered with when they first joined, which gets more and more rare as the years go by. They are fickle from denying Reality.”
Kathy Kim said, “See how many stay in the end. See how many will support her lies. For the people that are in COL, they don't need to come here to deny what we know as truth. They accept her, with all her warts and lies. That is fine....just know the truth and you are just as much to blame once your eyes are open to the truth and you continue on when you shouldn't. Actually promoting the lies.
Failed Student said, “(About treating people badly) That's what she did to me too. She showed me what others had written her in private, and I felt embarrassed reading such intimate material. Much of it revolved around sexual experiences or thoughts. Even her favorite at the time, Scott, did not escape her verbal revelations, nor WHH, nor the money Michael F. would be coming into.
“Then she showed me her masterpiece - about four pages of her book - you know - the little girl running away from the bombing. At that time that's all she had written, but evidently she got a ghost writer once she got to California.”
Failed Student said, “ Oh yeah, I got that treatment along with DP, before the two of us spent all night constructing some tables for Tae Yun's mother's temple. What a bitch that was - no talking, no eating, just meditate as you work your ass off.
“And now I want to make a comment about how uncomfortable I was sharing a shower with Tae Yun, at her insistence. In those days, I never realized what an evil woman she was, maybe she was getting her jollies looking at my body, I don't know, but I was a trusting follower and despite my normal amount of modesty, went along with it. On other occasions, especially at the cabin we had all bought together, she requested that I share her bed. In retrospect, I find this all rather disturbing, but hindsight is 100 percent.”
bemused said, “(About the couple) Which post was that? I read all the posts but don't remember. JH (formerly CT) was a regular martial arts student who attended energy class but wasn't in COL yet when she and her husband at the time had a baby, AT. When AT was maybe three or four and no longer in diapers, they both joined COL. JH and her ex shared custody of AT, which Tae Yun did not like.
“Tae Yun even accused JH's ex of molesting AT (and claimed AT liked it, just to reinforce the evil child idea). Both JH and AT are out of COL now. They left recently. At one point Chica's mom, ES, thought she was pregnant. This was before her relationship with Scott was made public. I think she turned out not to be pregnant. This is what I remember Tae Yun saying. I read in previous posts something about Tae Yun herself having an abortion. I haven't heard about any other pregnancies in COL.”
Shadow Dancer said, “Well, Old Fish lips didn't actually pay for all of the bondo applied to her bodywork... that is the result of the COL'ons 'love offerings'. She also did tell us in one COL meeting about how she once had her crew whip out their wangs and measure them on a table. I believe that little expo took place in Vermont. I doubt that they had to make the Sergeant Major salute, however. Finally, her taking numerous measurements of every person is an old method of control known as: Taking one's Measure. It is a method of identification and linkage that dates back to the olden days.”
saman said, “You forgot to mention her sincere interest in masturbation technique - well maybe which comes (sorry) under the heading of public humiliation. Since they were kids, though, I think you need to add "emotionally abusive to children" - I think chica could attest to that!”
saman said, “You know, I guess it's one thing to periodically share a ribald joke or statement with one's adult students, especially the more senior students whom you have known and taught for years. But to personalize stuff about penis size, or how you hold it to pee and to do this without regard to the ages or relationships (children, younger, lower ranking students etc.) of others present is absolutely either insane or an indication of severe psychopathology such as BPD or NPD - oh - sorry, I forgot we were talking about the person more famous than Ervis or Ofer. Sick, sick, sick.”
bemused said, “There was a lot of pressure to confess things in COL class and in journals. Tae Yun said she would know if any of us kept secrets from her, and we believed her. Tae Yun accused one COL member of wishing her dead and kept at it until the person stopped denying it and confessed. We all knew more about each other's sexual thoughts and histories than we wanted to know. But speaking for myself, my wildest thoughts weren't even in the same league as Tae Yun's actions. I wish I'd known of her sexual hypocrisy at the time.”
Ryanbeld said, “I’ve been remembering a lot more lately.. and speaking of journals....
I remember one time (one of the only times I wrote a journal) that I had written that I viewed kim as more of a mother figure than a master; because I had grown up in that environment and she always wanted to take credit for things my parents did. Well that didn't fly with her. next COL class she said, "some people here view me as a mother. I am not! you all came to me to learn! I am your master!" (something along those lines)
“I remember it hit me clear when she said that. I thought, what the hell do I need a master for? I never looked for or wanted one. I don’t want someone to tell me how I’m supposed to live my life, especially not from a person who does not practice what they preach.
“Needless to say I love my mother and obviously she is my mother, but that example was to show that I never viewed her as a master. I only bowed because I was told to bow, I only wrote journals because I was told to write journals.
“I believed she was something she isn’t because I was told at a young age she was all that. I viewed her more like a family friend that somehow over time took over the family. and since I was told to ask her if I could do things or if I could go places I started to view her in the mother role.
“I really hated doing that, my mom is my only mother, what business of Kim’s was it if I wanted to go somewhere. that’s the problem. no one should ask her if they can do anything, they should only tell her that they are going to do it. if she gets angry so what, its about time she knew her place. she has lived on the pedestal too long. she has done nothing to deserve the servitude she demands. its about time the people in COL demand the respect from her that they deserve.”
bemused said, “Tae Yun had a rule that if you asked for her advice, you had to take it. (This only applied to COL; regular martial arts students were allowed to disregard her advice, but Tae Yun thought it was a sign of "growth" if they took it.) In later years I found myself trying to guess what her advice would be before I asked for it. If I thought she would advise against what I wanted to do, I wouldn't ask. I would just quietly do whatever it was. When I decided to start working on my music, I went beyond quiet lack of permission. I announced my intent in my journal. This was the beginning of the end of my time in COL.”
bemused said, “I stayed longer than I should have because I wanted to achieve the rank of black belt for the physical mastery it represented, and because I thought it would get me into Tae Yun's inner circle. When I achieved black belt and didn't get into the inner circle, I was very disappointed. It wasn't what I expected.
“I saw that the COL newbies had it good because they were still being love-bombed for a while, and I thought the senior instructors and those in the inner circle had it good because they spent a lot of time with Tae Yun and got respect from everyone. It seemed to me that the COL members in the middle like me had it worst, because we worked the hardest for the least reward.
“Of course, since discovering this forum and talking with Adam G I've discovered that being in the inner circle wasn't what I thought it was, either. The public rewards might have been greater than what I got, but the private abuses were far greater than the verbal assaults I sometimes endured.”
bemused said, “While I was in COL, I often wondered why Tae Yun felt she needed to present herself as someone who had been born spiritually superior and didn't have the same temptations as everyone else. Why couldn't she just be a good martial arts teacher of human dimensions?
“I've come to the conclusion that she needs her superior self-image to feel entitled to and to get the absolute authority she wants. It is reasonable to question a human teacher, even if that teacher doesn't like being questioned, because that teacher can be wrong. So Tae Yun presents herself as beyond the questions of mere mortals.
“She tries to demonstrate such perfection to receptive people by telling them what they want to hear about themselves and by performing martial arts magic tricks. She also equates reason with spiritual inferiority, sarcastically deflecting challenging questions by saying, "You're too smart for me." This worked on me when I felt lonely and insecure in my mid-twenties. I guess I wanted to believe that finding a perfect teacher was possible.
“All it takes to refute and resist someone like Tae Yun is to question the very idea of spiritual superiority, which even most ministers don't claim to have. But this is hard for a lot of people.
“The fundamentalists are obvious: they claim to be spiritually superior to those who are not "saved," and this makes them feel entitled to tell everyone else what to do. But even the New Agers do what amounts to the same thing when they follow their gurus around and tell newbies not to think too much.
“We humans are capable of being rational creatures, but alas, often we are not. To the extent that we need to believe in something, we are vulnerable to people who need to be believed in.”
Ryanbeld said, “food for COL: until you go and hear the stories from every angle you can't get mad at me, because you have no understanding as to what you are mad about. You only see the one side. If you only care about the teachings, you have her books and the words are all you need.
“If you care about the person enough to devote your life, you should want to know who she is and how she became the person she is today. How can you pass on the teachings if you don’t even understand the person? How can you understand the person if you never question the person? There is no your truth or my truth; there is only truth. Perception is a different beast altogether.
“If the master doesn’t live the teachings, how can she expect the students to?
She talks about humble living; why are you the only ones who have to practice it? Because a person might have helped you doesn’t mean you owe them everything. Compare how much you helped her to how much she has helped you, I’d say it probably bends in your favor.
“If she says she has helped you more than you say she has helped you; are you sure its not just the power of suggestion? And why haven't you gone back out into the world to use your newfound gifts?
Ryanbeld continued and said, “Not knowing who she is and not wanting to know who she is are two different things; if you choose the latter then you can never fully understand the teachings because you have already closed yourself off to the idea of learning and discovering. It wouldn’t matter the life she had before she came to the US if she were honest about it. It wouldn’t matter the relationships she had if she were honest about it. It wouldn’t matter the plastic surgeries she had if she were honest about it. It wouldn’t matter the teachings if she were honest about living them also See a pattern here? The common denominator is honesty. And if she has come clean about anything after the fact that its been posted on here, that’s not honesty, that’s covering bases.
“I didn’t want to leave. I didn’t want to leave all the people I had known for my whole life up to that point. Whether people choose to be there or not, it doesn’t make any difference to me. She raises herself up next to god and treats people as dirt, I will always have a problem with that. I was raised there and lived there for 20 years. So no, I will not just get over it. I have moved on with my life of course; but to forget the past or to not understand the past is to be doomed to repeat it.
“And if you recall, I had left before Adam G, so you can't put my state of mind on him, no matter what anyone says. I left because she didn’t care about her own teachings enough to practice them, and she had no respect for her students.
“If you get mad at me for anything I have said. Good, you should always be in a state of learning. If you really don't care then stay away from the site. I think you need it though, its now a common purpose for all of you, it gives you an outlet for your frustrations. You feel the weight of the world on your shoulders but you don't know why. And since I was there and lived through the last "mass exodus", I know exactly what you are thinking and what you are feeling. I know the reactions of each and every person there. Its the same, you are still there so you haven't evolved into any different patterns or reactions. When you say you don’t care, its BS. When you say you never talk about people that leave, its BS.
“But really, try to understand why anyone is saying what they are saying that way you wont be so shocked again when the next migration comes. You wont have to blame the dark side or a person, you'd be able to explain it for what it is.
“Now go and run along and alert the proper people that Patrick has posted. Oops I meant Ryan, I mean James.. Ahh whatever.
“One more thing.. If Kim doesn’t care about what people say about her or if she has nothing to hide.. Why does she have people sign contracts that say they cant talk about her if they leave? And why were we videotaped being asked why we wanted to be there in col?
“Ok, enough posts, time to enjoy the day.”
Kathy said, “I'd like to see one of those contracts that people have to sign. I know when I told her I wasn't coming back, because she would never trust me again and I would never trust her.....she asked me to come sign some exit papers. I said, right out, No. No human being should control your every move and word. That is wrong if they try to.
“This being Lent season, I wonder if Tae Yun confesses? To make a confession, and omit the things you do, is a mortal sin in itself. I imagine Tae Yun is just sealing her fate. Without a truthful confession, you can not receive communion. If COL wants to know how her teachings affect them, just read the Bible that she tries to preach from. There are covenants that can't be broken. There are the ten commandments. She isn't following the Catholic teachings, God's teachings. You pray through Jesus Christ, not Tae Yun kim. She is a false idol. Speak to a priest if you don't believe me. I hold no hard feeling towards any there, I just pray that they find the truth, and return to their real family. Put real happiness in their lives.
Failed Student said, “When I told Kyong-Ae I wasn't coming back to train at ATC, she wanted me to write something to that effect. I told her I wasn't writing another anything. She grit her teeth on that but there was nothing she could do to force me to. I suppose all those signed statements that commit one to silence are really just a Sword of Damocles to hang over people's heads, but legally they aren't binding because they are signed under duress.”
“I voted this morning for the candidate of my choice, one of the privileges of living in a free society. As I drove home, I began to think of all the things I would have had to give up in order to follow Kyong-Ae and work toward fulfilling her "purpose".
“I would have been distanced, probably cut off, from my family. But now I am closer to not only my blood relatives, but to many others. I participate in many family gatherings, keep communication with everyone, and we all sincerely care about each other. I would not be living a relatively comfortable life now. Since separating from her, I got a decent job and paid into Social Security and got medical insurance coverage.
“I worked a forty hour week in pleasant surroundings without any picture of "big brother" great grand poobah staring down at me. I would not be able to have privacy, to choose what to wear, where to go, whom to associate with. I wouldn't even be able to lock my bedroom door. Not only that, I'd have to worry about madame wing-nut tying little love notes around my foot as I slept.
“I would not be able to express myself. I'd have to toe the party line in anything I wrote or spoke. I would not be in good health. Now I eat balanced healthy meals, and if I want to have wine or some other drink, I can do so. I never again want to look at rice or kimchi or that freakin' hot sauce. I have a dog and the protection and companionship he provides. That never would have been permitted in COL.
“I would not have been able to afford to travel as I have been doing and continue to do. I wonder too whether I would have lost the right to vote. Of course, I would have had my arm twisted to financially support some candidate she was shmoozing up to, whether or not I agreed with that person and their platform. I would not have the right to worship if I chose to do so - at least not in my church. I would have to have her as some kind of intercessor and confessor.
“In sum, I have lived life fully since getting out and enjoy the heady air of personal freedom. COLers, if you are able to read this, please weigh these matters in the balance and choose how you want to live your lives from here on in - on your knees or standing tall
Ryanbeld said, “I apologize to anyone who may feel stress or wrath due to my postings. And also I want to say that I understand how you feel. I felt the same hatred after inside edition. "how could they do this to me" I thought. And how could they do this to gm. In my heart I hated SD, MD, RC, and HC for a long time. I couldn’t understand why they did what they did, or why they said what they said. But before and after IE (Inside Edition) people were constantly leaving and none had anything positive to say. That weighed on me too.
“If GM (Tae Yun) was who she said she was, why do people have to leave to better themselves. If you don’t believe anything else I say; believe this, I never wanted to give up the relationships I had with people there. But I know the only way to have a relationship is to put gm first. And that’s where it felt wrong. Its ok to have a relationship with gm, but to base everything you do on it...you get what I’m saying. And for all you who say its a choice; that’s great too, only if you completely understood what you were getting into. I’m sure though that it wasn’t advertised that you would be humiliated in front of other members, verbally abused, and in a few extreme cases even physically abused.
“I can guarantee that 100% percent of you would have turned away if you were told that’s what was going to happen, well except for the closet masochists. Am I wrong on that?
“I know that in this country the burden of proof lies on the accuser, but based on personal experiences I don’t think I need it. If one party hasn’t been truthful, I’ll have to look to the other. But really, since I care about the people still there. And even after everything, I don’t want to see the world crumble around gm, I don’t want to see col destroyed.
“So this I say, prove me wrong. Show me she is who she says she is. Show me that I am wrong about her. If you can show me that, I’ll shut up for good and never post or speak on the subject again; and you've got my word on that.
“I will simplify it once step further. Prove me wrong, or tell me the truth. Either one carries the reward of silence. And correct me if I’m wrong, I’ve been the least accusatory. I don’t care much for name-calling, I just want answers.”
bemused said, “I would argue further that, in a way, intelligence makes people more vulnerable to cult recruitment. Intelligent people are exceptionally capable of comparing the world as it is to the world as it should be and being profoundly disappointed, especially if they are also creative or altruistic. So they can get caught up in groups that claim to be saving the world more easily than simple fools who take the world as it is for granted.”
bemused said, “They are trapped in a cycle of hope and fear. They hope COL will live up to Tae Yun's promises and fear that leaving COL would mean returning to their former lives, which they have come to view as empty.
“And people in COL aren't abused constantly. Tae Yun knows how to string everyone along by giving them just enough praise, fun, and sense of importance.
“It's also very hard for people to give up beliefs to which they are committed, even in the face of evidence to the contrary. There's a great book called "Mistakes Were Made (But Not By Me)" which explains how this happens.
“Paradoxically, the more serious the evidence against a cherished belief is, the more tenaciously believers cling to it, and the more elaborate their rationalizations become. People become very illogical when motivated to save face.”
bemused said, “I'm not necessarily any smarter than those still in COL. People leave when the emotional pain of remaining in COL becomes more intense than the emotional pain they remember from the time just before they joined COL. Seeing through the lies is part of it; some people feel the pain in their conscience first.
“(We were messed up?) Talk about biting the hands that feed her!
“Tae Yun needs to believe that in order to feel needed. She also needs to convince COL of that so they will remain dependent on her. But Tae Yun is more messed up than all of COL put together.
Failed Student said, “I kept my experiences from my family because I was so ashamed of having been duped. I think like many others that were sucked in by Tae Yun that we are above average on the intelligence scale, just not very street smart, which made us easy targets.
“I was angry at what happened to me and thought I was the only one so badly hurt, but when this thread came up, it brought to light that there were so many others much more seriously affected.
“For the first couple of years after separating from the cult, I harbored a lot of anger and wrote letters not only to Black Belt Magazine, but The National Women's Martial Arts Federation. My letter to Nancy Reagan evidently had some success, and my notes about my experience have helped victims of abuse.
“Now I have lost any trepidation I may have had about expressing myself and have opened up to my family, which has been a positive experience. My postings here are academic and without much emotion because it all happened so long ago, but yet, every incident is clear in my mind.
“Finally, I have been able to connect with some of those more recently separated from COL, and that too has been positive. I think that linking Tae Yun's past to her present activities has shed light on just what kind of a person she is.”
Shadow Dancer said, “Technically, Sarah is correct. It doesn't exist because they have ceased to call it COL. However, whether they call it "COL" or "The Church of Our Lady of Perpetual Abuse"... it is still the same thing. If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and quacks... it's a duck.”
Kathy Kim said, “COL is gone? Where are people going to go that want to be abused, overworked, all their money taken, worship a false God, known as Tae Yun kim, and have to live the way she says to live? Now I bet everyone has to change their name again. What the heck. She can run, but she can't hide. Her true judge sees everything she has done and everything she is doing. She will get her just rewards.”
Kathy Kim said, “Isn't it funny when things go wrong Tae Yun changes names of things? Like her name. like ATC to JSW I believe she changed Lighthouse's name too. Now she has changed COL? Like everyone doesn't know the cover up. Like it makes everything go away.? She sure lives in her own world. But I bet in that world of hers she is really afraid. She has burnt too many crosses.
“Each day, she gets closer to judgment day. I sure wouldn't want to have to answer for her sins. Her instructors won't be able to take the load for her. They are making their own load. Tae Yun, how long are you going to gamble with eternal damnation?
“I'm asking you, please, what you are doing is wrong and you know it. Don't let this season pass without making amends. Mortal sins abound in your life. You know what they give you. It is not right that you have them worship you like a God. Besides that, the meek shall inherit the earth.”
bemused said, “It is a fact that more than a dozen people lived in homes designed for families of four. At times I shared a bedroom with up to four other women. There are housing regulations that limit the number of people that can live in homes of various sizes, and COL exceeded these limits. Tae Yun's opinion of this was that it made us a stronger team and forced us to resolve our differences. It is my opinion that we were overcrowded in COL to exploit us financially and deprive us of privacy.
“It is a fact that some people ate just rice and kimchi for weeks or months. It is a fact that one crash diet I witnessed consisted of just an apple a day. It is a fact that one diet I was asked to follow for weeks consisted of just vegetables (to lose weight for the Romancercise program). Tae Yun's opinion of these programs were that they "cleansed" us. It is my opinion that many of Tae Yun's diet programs were unhealthy.
“It is a fact that when JC complained that she needed six hours of sleep to function while working at Lighthouse, which few of us were getting, Tae Yun criticized her. This happened in COL class in front of at least a dozen people. Tae Yun's opinion was that if we grew in our understanding of ki energy, we wouldn't need much sleep. It is my opinion that we were sleep-deprived to dull our minds a little so we didn't question Tae Yun as much.
“It is a fact that Tae Yun demanded journals as a condition of COL membership. It is a fact that people were punished for what they revealed in their journals and for what others revealed about them. Tae Yun's opinion was that writing journals was a way to "connect" with her. It is my opinion that we were required to turn in journals and report on each other so it would be difficult to have private doubts.
“It is a fact that Tae Yun yelled at people in front of all of COL, often until they broke down crying. Tae Yun's opinion was that this built character by bringing down excessive pride. It is my opinion that Tae Yun verbally abused people to keep their self-esteem low and their fear of her high.
“It is a fact that JML, JH, and CKC were each put on programs requiring them to stay in their room, not talk to anyone, and not eat or drink anything for seven days. Tae Yun announced it and I observed it. All three of these women had expressed various kinds of frustration before being put on these programs. Tae Yun's opinion was that these women needed a lot of purification. It is my opinion that Tae Yun punished people in such extreme ways to weaken them, especially if they were rebelling or considering leaving.
“It is a fact that Lighthouse paid COL employees far less than what they could have earned at another comparable job. It is a fact that Tae Yun charged COL members full price for programs they had difficulty affording. It is a fact that four COL employees of Lighthouse used the same bankruptcy lawyer to eliminate their debt. I knew two of these people, and one confessed to me a $38K debt. It is a fact that Tae Yun lived in a mansion and drove a huge Mercedes. Tae Yun's opinion is that she had nobler purposes for the money, such as a dream she called COL City. It is my opinion that Tae Yun financially exploited COL members to finance her own lavish lifestyle.
“Tae Yun and COL can try to spin the facts one way and ex-COL another way, but the facts are still there. That Tae Yun and COL try to keep all these facts out of public view is telling. "People won't understand," they claim. Maybe that's because most people tend to form opinions similar to those of ex-COL when the facts are presented.”
Failed Student said, “Bemused - You brought up the issue of deprivation diets, and this troubles me. Even the Nazis gave their prisoners more food than Tae Yun does to those she is punishing. At least those prisoners got some cabbage soup and a chunk of bread every day. Does Tae Yun understand that she is playing a dangerous game with the health of those she punishes? One simply cannot survive on an apple a day for a week, or some of the other extreme measures you mentioned. Dehydration will cause kidney failure, lack of a balanced diet upsets the electrolytes, and it would not be much of a stretch to imagine someone having cardiac arrest. How would she feel if that were to happen to one of her followers? There would be an autopsy and then the cat would be out of the bag for sure.. Blood values and tissue samples would confirm the cause.
“Additionally I find the idea of being confined to one's room repugnant. That is illegal imprisonment. Just this morning I read about a woman who was made to live in a basement, was tortured, and finally died as a result of her maltreatment. Again, this could happen to any one of the COLies or whatever they choose to call themselves now.
“As for lack of sleep, a recent study proved an increased incidence of diabetes and weight gain. The brain area that controls appetite (amygdala), is affected by sleep deprivation and the body is tricked into thinking it wants food when that is not the case.
“Wake up fools and get the hell out of there while you still have a vestige of health and a bit of dignity left. If you don't, the poor food and lack of sleep will take it's toll, and you will die an early death. Is that what you want? Is that serving her "purpose"?”
bemused said, “Elsewhere we have discussed Tae Yun's attitude toward women, which seems to range from secret envy to obvious contempt. What puzzles me is why she invites female students into COL at all. I think she does so for two reasons: so she can present an image of being a "role model" for women, and so her male COL students have hope of being in a relationship someday. For both purposes she finds it best to try to clone herself, to impose her identity on the women. But of course she isn't willing go so far as to pay for plastic surgery for them. Physically this identity imposition is done with diet, makeup, clothes, etc. Mentally this identity imposition involves squelching the women's own identities and self-esteem.”
Jacob said, “Another key component to this is that everything is a secret. One of the draws of the COL program itself is that its an 'elite' little group of people. At JSW I was always curious what these devoted JSW'ers were always up to. Then when you’re in, everything is still a secret, but you just know a little more.. and honestly.. I think a lot of us were there, and driven by these secrets.
“In the past, researching $cientology, their group operates the same ways. They have a more formal system giving people OT (Operating theitan? from memory) ranks of seniority/awareness of 'secrets'.
“The Reality of cults in general, is that you aren't exposed to the whole truth initially as it would be too much, and as outsiders believe, it would be weird. Slow measured exposure is a way. It lets you acclimate to the relative insanity, and see normal American culture, as strange, flawed.. and the key to col - without purpose.”
bemused said, “The issue with COL is more than just the keeping of secrets. The company I work for keeps trade secrets, but you don't find out that, say, the software company is actually a drug lab when you join. Despite the secrets, it is what it appears to be, a software company, and no more.
“As Clar points out, an image of COL life is presented that only partially matches Reality. Only the fun stuff, such as barbecue parties, beach trips, special meditation classes, and so on are revealed at first.
“The strict rules, harsh discipline, anti-democratic structure, financial austerity, lack of privacy, disruption of family ties, intrusion into all areas of life, physical exhaustion, and being at the mercy of Tae Yun's latest whim are kept hidden to varying degrees even from low-level members. Perversely, finding out more is presented as a special privilege.
“This deliberate misleading of people is called deception. It is a form of lying. Several COL posters have had the nerve to claim that they are demonstrating "moral standards" while they are being dishonest.”
carol56 said, “Thanks, Kathy, for the welcome. I may be off a little on my dates, but I think I left around the same time as Ken Kochan.”
bemused said, “Welcome, Carol. You and I probably don't know each other. I started Jung Suwon training in 1989. I am very interested in hearing about what happened before and after my time in COL. The Tae Yun vs. Adam G trial should be an interesting spectacle. I think there are parties being planned.
Her Lesson said, “I believe since Scott didn't have the charm to become a cult leader, he read a book on how to take a stupid ugly woman and make her into a cult leader! Guess he didn't realize he would make a uncontrollable Frankenstein and turn on everyone including him.”
bemused said, “I think Tae Yun came up with all the cult leader ideas on her own. She brought Scott in to handle the bureaucratic details. If anyone is to blame for making Tae Yun the way she is, it's probably her parents or another childhood authority figure.”
Jacob said, “IDK, I recall people like shadow on here saying that he recalls Scott studying about the scientology money making system, and mentioning things to him in passing, since shadow is here I'd like him to comment on that instead of me saying anymore.
“From having serious discussions with Kim's students from the 70's I have good reason to believe that all 'bad' occurred after Scott joined. My understanding from one of the people I have spoken with was that she had a solid enough MA background to teach them up to at least the black belt level.
“you studied cults, this stuff is straight out of the play book. Based on interaction I have had with people who trained with Kim before Scott was around, she wasn't all bad. In fact from seeing Scott/Kim start many businesses, I think COL in its current incarnation was a business experiment from the start. If you watch the video that 'Ryan' posted it is clear to see that everything in that video, happened! To us!”
“I have mulled over if Scott was part of the conspiracy or a 'victim' like the rest of us, and I am now leaning towards NOT a victim. This is something I have posted about a lot.
“I really believe that his knowledge and study skills have been essential to the relative 'success' or at least past success, in COL.
“Who can imagine him at COL1, while everyone is waiting in the racket ball court... "Ma'am wait until they've started singing and chanting when 25+ minutes has passed we'll go down and then you can." I could see that happening in the early stages of COL until it became second nature to Kim to perform this protocol.
“I can really with a lot of authority now say that there was never any positive intent of the COL program.. Things do not appear coincidental now that they eventually rolled into a cult. It seems now clear and present that those who were recruited for the COL program were part of a pure business plan. There was never any positive purpose towards anyone other than the leaders. I use that plural purposely.”
Kathy Kim said, “Scott has worked hard for many years. He has also lined his pockets. He isn't doing what he does for nothing.
“Everyone should get paid for the work they do, but not at the expense of others doing without, or taking from others and pleading poverty, when in fact your coffers are fully loaded.
bemused said, “Cults go way back in human history. Many cult leaders have perfected their manipulative techniques by trial and error, without any instruction manual to go by. When Scott started reading about $cientology money making schemes, it was probably to find out how to capitalize on the cult structure that was already in place. I don't think he designed Tae Yun's cult. I do think he made it more profitable.
“It also appears that Tae Yun has gotten progressively worse over the years. I don't think there was a sudden change when Scott showed up. She got worse just in the years I was there, demanding more recognition and having more tantrums.
“The personality disorders that motivate her to be a cult leader she has had from early childhood, if not from birth. Keeping people waiting is a narcissistic and histrionic trait. I don't think she needed any encouragement from Scott or anyone else.
“Scott, Michael F., TCS, Mark, EAS, Sarah K., and others in the upper echelon have been there long enough and participated in enough questionable activities to be co-conspirators. I think they are victims as well, but Scott has become quite hardened.
“Based on my observations of Scott, I have formed an opinion of him as a heartless, bullying, socially clueless tightwad. I never liked him. (To varying degrees I have genuinely liked all the other leaders whose initials I listed.) Tae Yun and Scott need each other. Tae Yun couldn't have organized her life without him, and he couldn't have learned to be amoral without her.
PP suspects that if she (Tae Yun) could have gotten away with it, she would have branded everyone. Fortunately, she didn’t put visible brands on them, although the blue or green dot is a brand, of Biblical badness.
Her Lesson said, “In my opinion, the piranha is a sadist and Scott is a masochist since she talks about him like he is crap and he continues to worship her (guess he has no pride). Although from what is posted, the whole COL crew must be masochist, they seem to like the abuse from an old plastic prostitute (as previously posted).
carol56 said, “Thank you, Chicabonita for the welcome. I'm sure you will recognize me when you see me. I'm not sure I would recognize you...you were quite young when I left. I joined shortly after you all came from Vermont. I remember your family first lived over on the east side of San Jose.
“My experience of leaving was almost exactly as yours, and I, too, felt I was unwelcomed and pushed out. I know it was my "attitude", and they were trying to teach me "a lesson". In my heart I knew I could never commit my mind body and soul to the Grandmaster, and she was unwilling to accept anything less.
“Thanks, again, and I will try to keep up with you all. I have a full and wonderful life, and I travel quite a bit. I 'm leaving for England and Spain on Saturday and will be back in a few weeks. Take care and follow you heart...”
bemused said, “The attendance numbers were merely IDs in the Jung Suwon student database, no more malevolent than my employee number at the company for which I work.
“Those of us in COL had COL numbers, which matched the last two digits of the phone numbers of our pagers. We used these to identify ourselves back in the 90s when our pagers had only numeric messaging capability. These numbers changed whenever we upgraded our pager service. Within full-time COL, these numbers were pretty much in order of belt rank, with Tae Yun and Scott as 01 and 02. Part-timers and children had higher numbers. When I left I was 08.
“I don't know what happened after I left, but when cell phones became common, this COL number system might have become obsolete.”
Jacob said, “There is a lot of evidence that numerology was a very important thing to kim.”
bemused said, “I'm interested in your evidence. Please do tell. Tae Yun had some common superstitions about certain numbers. Many Eastern cultures fear the number 4 the way many Western cultures fear the number 13. Tae Yun didn't like the number 4 but didn't always avoid it.
“The Jung Suwon student database didn't assign the number 666 to any student because Tae Yun had a typical Christian superstition about the "number of the beast" from the Book of Revelation.
“When it came to labeling students, I think names mattered to Tae Yun more than numbers. A previous post mentioned that Tae Yun changed some students' names after they had declared bankruptcy. I know about most of the name changes and two of the bankruptcies, but I never made the connection while in COL. She may have changed other students' names to hide the reason behind some of the name changes. Aside from the bankruptcy issue, I think she changed names to give COL students new identities as part of separating them from their families and pre-cult lives.”
Shadow Dancer said, “Hi Carol. I'm sure I was there when you were, but I honestly cannot figure out who you are. Oh well. Nice to see you here though!
“Jacob... the thing with Scotty and scientology happened one day when I stopped by to get a progress update on the KDMS system (the forerunner to the LMS). He showed me an article about the scientologists and how they seemed to have a never ending list of class offerings and how the price went up stratospherically.
“We didn't talk about it much, but I think we can gauge his feelings from the way COL programs started to morph and go up in price. As far as the value of the classes... I think it is safe to say that never has so much been given for the gain of so little. What do the COL'ons think they have gained? It's easy to point to what they've lost, though.
“Scotty really is the lynchpin of her world. Without him, she would soon have absolutely nothing. He is the only one with enough business acumen to keep the companies running.”
Shadow Dancer said, “Do you remember some of the exercises she had us do during Self-Discovery Weekends? One time she had us think back to the time when we were babies and had us all crawl around in the dirt yowling, and cooing.
bemused said, “I don't remember that exercise, but I remember a similar one in which we all crawled around pretending to be dogs. A few of us lifted one leg and pretended to leave our mark. Fortunately, no one tried to sniff anyone else's crotch. Most people seemed to be having fun, but there was an obvious element of humiliation.”
Failed Student said, “A note about Scott vis a vis Tae Yun and who is the puppet and who is the puppeteer.
“On more than one occasion she humiliated him in front of others for the slightest provocation. Once he raised his voice and she made him do fifty push-ups. On another occasion, he was putting together the sweat tent for the weekend retreat and she didn't like the way he was putting the poles in the ground and called him out on that too.
“So I really don't know who ultimately is to blame, but by now he's in it up to his ass and there's no way he can get out”
Her Lesson said, “Do you know how sick this crawling around like a baby or barking like a dog sounds?
“She must have been laughing all the way to the bank. As I mentioned several times before how she laughed at all of the Col'ers and how she saved them. Saved them hell, she turned them into sheep, who else would follow such stupid instructions.
“What could have been the explanation that she could make people do such ridiculous things? Someone please explain to me what could make people do such foolish things?
I do not want to offend or be rude, I truly would like to know.”
Shadow Dancer said, “You probably didn't serve her tea with a deep enough bow, or you didn't kiss her ass with the right color of lipstick.
bemused said, “I talked to another exer over the weekend, and he had some interesting stories. Although when Tae Yun claimed to be on a "special program" it usually meant that she was having plastic surgery, there was one time when she really was intending to give herself a two-week wilderness fasting and workout program at Ah Chim Hae, her old ranch. She lasted only half a day.
“Maybe she did better when she was younger and testing for her first, second, and third degree black belts, which we can verify that she earned. Tae Yun's ex tested with her, so at least he knows what those testing involved. Would someone who talked with her ex like to comment?
“This exer also said, “ that many of the techniques Tae Yun performed in her videos were fake. For example, some of the boards were sawed into so they would break more easily.
I made it as far as black belt in her school. To earn that rank I had to spend three days in the forest with no food or water, working out twice a day. Then, back in the dojang, I did forms up to Ba Sai; breaks of up to a four cinder block stack and including complex kicking combinations such as roundhouse/crescent/spinning-roundhouse; and sparring with 2-3 opponents while tied to a lightweight chair, with one leg tethered to a water jug, and with various other impediments. I didn't break the bottle, but I might have succeeded if I'd been allowed to use my elbow instead of my hand.
“My point is that if what this exer says is true, it's likely that for many years now Tae Yun has been incapable of passing her own black belt test, let alone her own master test.”
Take Your Kin said, “well the COLies don't think they are lying. They believe they are serving a grand purpose. Grand Master Tae Yun Kim is their leader. Everyone else be damned. They are blogging as an anecdote to this site and the positive (please, like there are any) aspects of being in the same area of Grand Master Tae Yun Kim. The facts are We know the truth. We believe the truth. Many of you suffered to gain that truth and they are trying to usurp you in any way they can. Clever? not really.
“They are grasping at straws trying to hold the "kingdom" together. It is really fun to lie with a purpose than it is to spread the truth.
“As an outsider, it is painful to hear about the victims of COL. Much like the victims in that busted up cult in Texas, it is hard to watch the footage, read about the mistreated captives and children there. Maybe Tae Yun wants to be known as the best cult leader?
cult! It is what it is. I often think of COL and Lighthouse like the RMS Titanic. There are devotees who will sink with the ship...just as the orchestra played while everyone was fleeing. Perhaps they felt it was pointless to leave and they will do what it takes to provide some level of comfort to the doomed passengers or their devil-may-care captain. Have a nice day.”
Failed Student said, “I know for a fact Tae Yun Kim even dislikes being short. She said as much to me, wishing she could be as tall as me - which is only about four inches more. I looked at her recent pictures and it confirms this. Why else would she be wearing platform shoes and/or four inch heels, as well as wigs that add a bit to the perception of height.
“Now I think that those scars on Tae Yun Kim's wrists shown in Cultmaster may very well be a failed suicide attempt. If she even speaks of machine gunning herself, the thought of self destruction is alive.
“"Dear Leader" Kim Jong Il has this same stature hang-up and wears shoes that add to his height, as well as a pompadour hairdo which adds a bit topside.
“Both Tae Yun Kim and Kim Jong Il have what is known as the Napoleonic Complex - they counter their physical shortcomings by trying to overachieve in some other area, usually employing a bit of tyranny to effect their goal.”
Shadow Dancer said, “I like that I can have a relationship with my children without the interference from outside parties telling them what they have to feel about me... I get to be judged by my actions instead of kimmy's agenda. I like being able to choose what I want to learn and have the freedom to study it in as much depth as I want. I like to be able to actually get value for my expenditures.
“I'm actually taught how to use and apply the skills for the betterment of my life instead of someone else’s. I like being able to go to a restaurant and being able to eat without having to wait for some diva to arrive fashionably late and then eat cold congealed food. I like that I can choose my friends based on our feelings towards each other instead of how they treat kimmy. I like the closeness I share with my family. I like not having to fear some silly histrionics over nonsensical issues.
“I like not having to find new ways to flatter a silly old bag with an infinite appetite for praise. I like the fact that I can work on my future, my growth, and my joy instead of her future, growth, and joy. I like that my accomplishments are my own without some old cow ducking in front of me to collect the praise for things she didn't do. I take responsibilities for my actions and not have to worry about kimmy trying to blame me for things that she chose that failed. In short, I like to be able to live my life and not be some resource to be used for the benefit of someone's ego.”
bemused said, “I could list many things I like about being out of COL, but in this post I'll mention just one: berries.
“When Tae Yun ate with us at COL1 and then Stargazer, and sometimes when we ate out at restaurants, she got a special place setting, often with special food. When various berries were in season, she would have a little bowl of them.
“I would often secretly envy that little bowl. When I wasn't on one of her crazy diets I usually ate fairly well, but my choices were limited and my budget even more so. I could have gone out and bought myself some berries, but they're expensive and I was usually broke. Now I make it a point to buy berries every week, several kinds if they're ripe. I like to eat them with sorbet.”
Jacob said, “Ya, just in case they were wondering... me shutting up does have a price associated with it. (jay-kay of course)”
Her Lesson said, “Leaving is difficult because you have to make your own choices, the piranha no longer makes the choices for you. From what I read about cults, there are some who prefer to continue to be abused rather then make their own decisions. What does this say about an intelligent person?
“Just a note about Adam G, from what I know he is doing wonderful, a full and complete life. There is not an ugly, old plastic woman telling him what to do, when to do it and how. I have never seen him happier and he is his own man! He no longer has to call every five minutes to report what he is doing or eating or etc. Col'ers doesn't that sound great?”
bemused said, “I thought I'd say a bit more about life at COL3, the women's house.
I was trying to get enough protein and fresh veggies, so I took to buying a carton of eggs and a bag of carrots and broccoli each week and putting my name on them. Meanwhile, JH made herself a huge bowl of "everything kimchi" each week. It included beans, so it had some protein. Like me, she put her name on it. Between making her own food and bicycling, she kept herself thin and was one of the few women not nagged about her weight.
“When Tae Yun found out about us not sharing our food, she got upset and told us that if any of us bought extra food we couldn't put our names on it and had to share it. Of course, any decent food in the house was gone in a day or two. I continued to buy eggs because they were cheap. JH stopped making her "everything kimchi" and gained weight.
Laundry was another contentious issue. We had one washer and dryer and at times up to a dozen women living in the same house. We ended up scheduling when each person could do their laundry, but we still had issues. Sometimes I would go to do my laundry and find wet clothes in both the washer and the dryer. If I was desperate, I would take the person's clothes out and start mine with the idea of putting theirs back in after I was done, but if they showed up there would be a fight.
“Showers in the morning were similar, except we couldn't throw each other out like we could each other's clothes.
“Sharing anything was difficult because we weren't allowed to bond. Tae Yun was always suspicious of close friendships. She explicitly told us she wanted each of us to be closer to her than to other COL members. Tae Yun also told us she didn't want us competing with each other, but she constantly compared us, so this was a lie. We were also encouraged to report on each other in our journals. AP made the mistake of having conversations that ended with, "Please don't tell Grandmaster about this." She left not long after she was reported for that.
“Although there wasn't real bonding, there were cliques that formed from time to time. For a while SK, AP, HC, and HW carpooled to Lighthouse, COL1, and other places together. They reminded me of how popular girls acted in high school and I resented it. Some of us were never part of a clique. The mothers, JL and JH, tended to be excluded. So did CC, who was constantly being criticized for her weight. JC and I watched as women lower than we were in belt rank, such as SK, got more attention from Tae Yun and got surrounded by junior wannabes.
“JC and I had sort of a love-hate relationship. Looking back, I suspect she was bipolar. I had a hard time predicting her moods. I irritated her by being slow and inefficient sometimes, which I now realize was due to an underactive thyroid. Yes, we both needed medication! JC seemed to provoke most of our fights (mania causes irritability), but I was blamed just as often. I once asked Tae Yun about it, and she said, JC was jealous of me. Maybe that was the case, or maybe that was just another example of Tae Yun's social manipulation.
“Tae Yun was constantly telling us that the men's house didn't have these problems. Some of the men echoed this and really liked to rub it in. Of course, many of the men were working overseas, so there were fewer of them home at any one time. Showers were probably easier because they all had short hair. Maybe laundry was too because they had fewer delicate items.
“But Tae Yun may have been lying about the men being more harmonious. MA was put in charge of the men's house after being in charge of the women's, and he once remarked that while the women might disobey him behind his back, the men tended to directly challenge his authority. If they argued with MA, surely they argued with each other.
I was hardly ever alone, I had no privacy, I was supposedly in a "loving environment," yet I was lonely. I'll bet we all were.”
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