bemused said, “The factors that make people vulnerable are depression, being in transition, and idealism, to which most people are prone at one time or another.”
Failed Student said, “This is why Tae Yun focuses on the young 'uns. Adolescents especially are in emotional turmoil, and with their hormones on overdrive probably have gone through some relationship problems. Recent college graduates too are vulnerable as they perceive the world is out there to be conquered and they have their youth and vitality to offer.”
bemused said, “Yup, the prime age range for cult recruitment is 18 - 25.”
bemused said, “To further answer TheLoneTiger, the biggest news of the year was the settlement between Tae Yun and Adam G, her former Lighthouse president and lover.
“Briefly, Adam G wanted out and cheated, Tae Yun fired him from Lighthouse while he was in China and manipulated the woman he cheated with into filing a restraining order, Adam G left COL, Tae Yun sued Adam G for stealing trade secrets, then Adam G countersued for illegal business practices and also sued for palimony. After a bruising legal fight, Tae Yun and Adam G settled out of court. The settlement happened almost exactly a year ago.”
bemused said, “Speaking of anniversaries, I believe it was August 12, 1999, when, after being out of COL almost a year, I finally quit Jung Suwon training and turned in my keys to the Academy, then in Milpitas. After that I was out for good, never to return. So I have been free for ten full years now, about as long as I was in the cult.”
TheWanderingTaoist said, “You had keys to the place even after leaving COL? Did you also teach there or how did you warrant a set of keys? I worked at my former school both in office and as assistant instructor of the children's classes and never earned my own set of keys. Since you've been free from Kimmie have you studied elsewhere or did you give up MA's completely?”
bemused said, “COL was and probably still is separate from the martial arts school. When I left COL I turned over my keys to the COL house I was living in. I retained keys to the martial arts school for longer because yes, I did teach there. I sometimes practice TKD moves on my own. If I study martial arts again it will probably be a different art, such as judo.”
“I don't recall Tae Yun teaching grappling techniques, but she did teach how break out of common holds and to fall correctly. Or rather, her instructors did. A cop who was training with us for a while taught me a really nifty arm lock. If I found another martial art boring I wouldn't continue in it. But I've been too busy with music and other pursuits to join a dojo.”
Kathy Kim said, “Wishing all ex-colers the best. The only way is up after leaving, I have a close relationship with our Lord and feel happier than anytime in my life. This is how I plan to spend the rest of my life. Helping others.....not myself.”
PP noted that this is the fourth anniversary of some exers discovering the net sites. Yay.
bemused said, “Dear Tae Yun Kim, When I was your student, you talked a lot about gratitude. You expected a lot of it from your students, and when they failed to give you sufficient amounts of it, you accused them of being ungrateful and made them feel guilty. You implied that gratitude is sacred, and I agree with you. I really do.
“What about your gratitude for your students? I think you owe them quite a bit of it. After all, it is their labor and sacrifice that pay for your gated mansion in the hills, your well-appointed Mercedes, and your endless supply of new clothes and jewelry. It is their promotion efforts and writing skills that land you awards and TV interviews. It is their dedication that keeps your Tae Kwon Do school running.
“According to reports from former students, you can't even operate an ATM machine or use a computer by yourself. I can attest to your lack of English skills.
“I cannot verify your martial arts skills, because aside from a few forms and some staged self-defense demonstrations, I haven't witnessed them. Your instructors, however, demonstrate a lot of skill. There are many basic things that your students do for you that you either can't or won't do yourself. You should be grateful.
“You are capable of inspiring people. This is what most elicits gratitude from your students. Your greatest skill is in convincing people to want to do things for you. There is nothing wrong with this, in itself. The world needs leaders. However, you are a leader because you have followers. You owe them your leadership status and you should be grateful.
“Instead, you have underpaid, overworked, lied to, and verbally abused these followers. You have also insisted on controlling their relationships with their parents, children, and significant others. You justify these actions as teaching methods, but I have never known any other teachers who use these methods, except Werner Erhard, who was disgraced on 60 Minutes. This behavior is as illogical as it is unfair and unspiritual. You want to keep these people working hard for you, don't you?
“If you do, treat them well. Pay them what their work is worth. Give them time to rest. Tell them the truth. Be respectful when you talk to them and don't yell at or insult them. Let them handle their own family and romantic lives. And most of all, be grateful. Without them, you would have no wealth or fame. You might even have to learn to use an ATM machine.
“Sincerely, Your Former COL Student”
Failed Student said, “Bravo! Bravo! Well said, Bemused said.”
hyeongsa said, “Bemused, this letter speaks volumes and it's views are shared by many. It has inspired me to write a letter also. It will be posted soon. Thank you for telling it like it is.
Kathy Kim said, “We look forward to reading your letter. Bemused has put into words the truth. Great Job Bemused.”
hyeongsa (a former student) said, “Dear Tae Yun Kim, Time and again you have apologized to your students saying that if you have ever done anything wrong or to upset them to please forgive you. You use the phrase "knowingly or unknowingly" as if that were some kind of disclaimer. Let's just say that in your case it is mostly "knowingly" that you hurt others and manipulate lives as well as do your best to destroy relationships and dreams only to promote your own selfish desires. And all your lies and schemes are done in the name of "helping others" and "making a difference". Shame on you!
“You pretend to care about people, as long as there is something in it for you. For the rich business man or "has been" celebrity, you come off like you can save them from themselves or that you can somehow partner up with them to do something in the future (which never ends up happening). You reach out to the downtrodden (mainly through your students' efforts) but only because of the photo op and to later have something to brag about. Even with your students or some who visit your school, you shower those you perceive to have something to offer with so much attention while all the time you are plotting how to use them for your selfish agenda and to get your hands on their money. Shame on you!
“You break up families by telling students that their children, spouse or other family members have "bad energy", or there are "past life" issues, or that God gave you a message directly that they must break all ties with those loved ones. Who do you think you are? You tell these things to your students so you can become the center of their lives instead of their own faith and families. You lie and tell your students it is best for them to break these "attachments". Shame on you!
“Making students' work all hours to wait on you hand and foot and cater to your every whim is not to train them to be great "warriors" but instead to feed you never ending desire to have everything your way. Their well being means nothing to you so long as you have your grand "image" portrayed to the outside world. "Any time, any place" means to be willing to be a slave to anything you command even if it means no sleep for days on end. Shame on you!
“What more can you take from these students? You have their money, control over their careers, and control over all their time including any relationships they have, even with each other. You send them out once in awhile to "wear a red coat" and visit with family. A joke! You give "permission" and it is so rare an occasion that when students do visit with family they feel awkward, guilty and uncomfortable. You have drained the very life out of them and it shows. Who can get back some of the most productive years of their life, wasted on your selfish schemes? Shame on you!
“You claim that no one has honor. Look in the mirror; it is you who has no honor. You claim no one has gratitude. Look in the mirror; it is you who has no gratitude. As each discovers who you are, they despise what you have done to wrong them through your lies. To this I say, shame on you!
“Your former COL student.”
Failed Student said, “I have rarely read a statement written with such passion as Hyeongsa said, “'s, and even though I am many years removed from this situation, it evoked tears from me.
“May your pain be lessened with each passing day Hyeongsa said, “, as well as the pain of all others who have found the courage to exit from the living Hell endured while under the iron rule of Tae Yun Kim.”
bemused said, “Great letter, Hyeongsa! Welcome to our discussion group. We may have known each other in COL. Even if we didn't, thank you for relating your experiences and feelings, which are so similar to mine.”
Failed Student said, “I have read Bemused's and Hyeongsa's letters to Tae Yun Kim, and I can only conclude that this woman is evil incarnate. Selfish, mean, sadistic...all these terms are applicable.
“I no longer feel pain from my three year involvement with her group, but as I read the litany of what Tae Yun Kim has done, both physically and psychologically to her followers, I am sickened, and at the same time grateful for MY inner strength to have escaped the harshness of her iron rule.
“I had no idea that she would change from a questionably competent martial arts instructor in a small town into a megalomaniac intent on controlling every aspect of her disciples lives, from their eating, sleeping, clothing, working, associating, copulating, and God knows what else.
“In a way, I feel some regret that - had I known then what I now know - I might have been able to nip this in the bud.... but hindsight is 100 percent. Perhaps if I had not joined her school, helped her family financially, convinced her to seek medical help in her pregnancy, maybe all this would not have come to pass.
“Maybe there is a reason for everything. Maybe this messy situation has helped me to grow and to be in the happy place I now find myself. Not to get religious about this, but maybe God does work in mysterious ways. Peace.”
hyeongsa said, “I have heard that Tae Yun does on occasion take her closest students to Mass. However they cannot attend without her or by their own decision. Tae Yun "invites" them. If they are working on a "special project" for her, they will be excluded.
“It is true that she says the group will be together after death. She also said, “ that there are "soul mate groups", referring to her and her followers and how they are destined to be together.
“"You won't find someone like me for a thousand lifetimes." How many remember Tae Yun saying this? There is quite a bit of reference to past lives in her teaching and she uses it as another means of control. If students don't get it right in this life, they are doomed to come back to repeat it and not necessarily in human form. This life, they are told, is the only chance they have for Tae Yun to help them get it right.
“Getting back to her Bible teaching, she used to have what was called an I.T. or intensive training program. In this one on one program it was common for students to watch the film Jesus of Nazareth. This became a good way for her to begin to weave herself and her training classes in with Jesus, God and the Bible. From time to time Tae Yun will have classes and bring the film out again.
“Whether in her Bible class or through this film, Tae Yun inserts herself in place of Jesus. It is common for any Pastor or Priest to examine scripture and relate it to our life as it is today but Tae Yun always twists it to fit HER needs at the time. During a viewing of the film mentioned Tae Yun asked students which disciple they think they are because some in the room are actually reincarnated disciples. She showed the Gethsemane scene and claimed students who fall asleep in her class are like the disciples who slept while Jesus was praying. Tae Yun said, “ that sleep is allowing the devil to snare you. These are but a few of the ways she uses people's faith to control them.
“There are a lot of dots to connect here and a lot more information about her. Failed Student said, “, maybe this helps with your presentation. Bemused said, “ and Kathy, surely you remember these types of classes.”
Failed Student said, “Thanks for this info Hyeongsa. I've been printing out the posts from the past several days and they will be very useful as I hone my presentation into its final form.
“I remember in my first interview with Tae Yun that she stated she wanted to be the Buddha. but that was when her mother had the temple which the students were encourage to attend. Now that she's switched to Christianity, she wants to be Jesus incarnate. Really, what delusions of grandeur. Jesus was not interested in material wealth and if He lived today, wouldn't be chauffeured around in a Mercedes, living in a mansion, and having his followers slave for him.
“So it appears that Tae Yun has integrated Buddhism and Christianity by teaching about reincarnation. Not a bad concept in itself, because the Episcopal priest I spoke with said, “ I need not abandon Buddhism.
“This sleep deprivation however is troubling. The processes that occur within various centers of the brain are compromised, from eating aberrations to hallucinations and everything in between. Nothing is gained and much is to be lost, including longevity. This is one of the building blocks of brainwashing, so the less sleep the subject gets, the more vulnerable they are to accept whatever occurs by way of suggestion.
bemused said, “Not long before I left COL I tried to take Sundays off to work on my music my favorite spiritual activity. Scott asked to meet with me and then asked me if I wanted to leave. He said, “ that writing background music for Tae Yun's TV show would be contributing to "our purpose" but doing my own thing was not.
“This was one of the factors that led to my leaving. Another was that my "fiancé" was avoiding me, (I found out after discovering Bullshido that he had been hiring prostitutes while working in Asia).
“Yet another was that I was transferred to Lighthouse's purchasing department and MP and I ended up not getting along Tae Yun's manipulations, no doubt. Looking back, I think the strongest factor ran deeper. I was depressed, exhausted, frustrated, disillusioned. I felt like nothing I did was ever good enough. That feeling of being special that Tae Yun gave me at the beginning had finally worn off completely, and nothing Tae Yun did could restore it.”
Kathy Kim said, “You are special Bemused. You are and were one of the most talented people in COL. Not only with your mind but with your music. I love your voice. Funny how we let someone like her decide what our self worth was. We all have weak times in our life. We are lucky that the good Lord helps us over those hurdles and teaches us what love is really about.
“I can see how much you have grown, just by reading what you have to say. You could never had done that if you had stayed with her. She wanted to use your talents but you could not take any credit for it. She would have you believe it was her that gave you those talents. All of what you went through, all of us actually, has made us stronger people. It was one day at a time, but it does come.”
bemused said, “Ah, yes, Tae Yun wanted to take credit for every COL member's strengths and blame COL for all her weaknesses. If we tested well, looked good, or did something to attract attention, we had to thank Tae Yun profusely or she would resent us. But if an event didn't go exactly the way she wanted, it was our fault, never hers.
hyeongsa said, “Bemused, didn't you give Tae Yun piano lessons? Everything must revolve around Tae Yun or she has a meltdown. If you watch the YouTube of "The Bride" there is a lot of thanking towards Tae Yun when the bride does her break and hardly a mention of the groom. Only Tae Yun is allowed the spotlight and center of attention. It will always be this way.
“Bemused, you are gifted musically and as with each person's individual, God given talents, Tae Yun must see to it that they are all directed towards her selfish needs. Now you are free from her and your music must be more amazing than ever!”
bemused said, “Yes, Hyeongsa I did give Tae Yun one piano lesson. She didn't want to learn the basics. She wanted to learn just one song so that she could show off, like she does with her guitar and flute. She talks about what a great student she is, but it's BS.
“After I left COL I joined the Northern California Songwriter's Association (now West Coast Songwriters) and worked very hard. I learned a ton about songwriting, playing, singing, and stage presence. Now I perform with my hubby at local coffeehouses, farmers markets, art walks, and house concerts. I've received compliments from people ranging from Nashville publishers to music magazine editors to local DJs to the head of A&R at Virgin Records. I almost got one of my more country-ish songs into Nashville. As a 45-year-old folkie, I'm not likely to actually get promoted by the biz. I earn some money, but not enough to cover my expenses. That was never the point anyway. The point is that I'm doing what I love to do, in my own way.
“By the way, DDJ is also out and pursuing music. We get together and jam periodically. Juliana said, “ (JO) is also doing something creative, designing fashions for high-end boutiques. Chicabonita said, “ (SG) studies Middle Eastern dance.”
bemused said, “Hyeongsa if you don't mind my asking, what led you to leave COL? Cult leaders spin such a tangled web of manipulation that I'm always curious how people find their way out.”
TheWanderingTaoist said, “bemused – (learning only one lesson), That's like going to a martial arts school and telling the instructor "I don't want to be bothered to learn the art. Just teach me one spinning kick so I can impress everyone."
hyeongsa said, “Bemused - you ask what eventually led me to leave COL. It wasn't one particular thing. There came a point where Tae Yun's lies, manipulation and psycho rants became too much. I could no longer justify her behavior by saying to myself "I trust my master" and "it's not right to question my master". The voice inside me, the one Tae Yun calls our "silent master", began to whisper that this isn't right and that whisper led to a shout I guess you could say and that changed to "I got to get out of here!"
“Fortunately I didn't have anything really holding me there as some do like a child or a spouse. Once the seed of doubt is planted, that the master I believed in is really a fairy tale and worse yet, a con artist, everything that held me there began to crumble. My eyes were opened and I looked at everything in a new and real way. Class was no longer the same, not the COL classes anyway. Going to dinner, a movie, working all night at LWS or SG wasn't an honor, it sucked.
“I realized that our goals didn't really exist, not the original ones that brought me to wanting to be a part of the elite COL. Becoming an instructor has little or nothing to do with your martial arts skills, how you can work with or teach others, how long you have been training, how often you come to class, it all comes down to the politics of the group and how Tae Yun wants it to be. I knew that goal was not achievable for me.
“Building COL City is the biggest farce ever. Making a difference by helping others became very shallow and only happened when there was something in it for Tae Yun. I had to face it, my life became miserable in Tae Yun's world.
“I held on to my faith throughout the years I was there and ultimately after much prayer and searching for the truth, God made a way for me to get out. I found the strength and courage through Him and left.
“For those still there, you know you have had these feelings from time to time. You know that you have witnessed things and heard things from Tae Yun that you know are just plain wrong. Don't fight it, don't justify it. She is truly evil. Look at everything through new eyes and you will see it. It isn't too late to leave. It isn't going to get better next week, next month, next year or ever. Find your true freedom and live the life promised but always unreachable in Tae Yun's world.”
Kathy Kim said, “Thanks for sharing Hyeongsa. As time goes by it gets easier and easier being away from her. Next week it will be 18 years since I left. My biggest hurt was because I loved everyone, including her, but I knew I couldn't stay. Then because she says the word, everyone is against you. So was there really Love? She doesn't even let your feelings be your own. True Love is God, so you chose right.
“May I ask how long you have been gone? Or do you not want anyone to know who you are? If so I understand. It is us that are speaking out that can help others question and see if they are really where they want to be. If it is right.”
bemused said, “Thanks for sharing your story, Hyeongsa said. It is much like mine. I made it to black belt and into COL but never into the "innermost circle" of COL. I thought Tae Yun chose people for this based on merit, but hard work didn't get me anywhere. After a while I had to admit to myself that the real ticket in was unquestioning obedience.
“After reading all the Bullshido posts, I'm glad I wasn't privy to Tae Yun's worst behavior. The instructors are accomplices in some serious abuses.”
Carson said, “I haven't posted in over a year, but I thought I'd check in today. Hello all! I hope you are well. I am well and happy, and I became an unofficial Grandma a few weeks ago. Not long after I left COL/LWS/JSW I decided that I wanted a relationship (on my terms and with someone I loved, not whom I was told to love). I joined a few on-line relationship sites since I didn't know anyone here on 'The Central Coast'. I met a wonderful man, and we have been together for a little over 3 years. His son and daughter-in-law had a little girl August 22.
“We bought a beautiful home last October, coming up on 1 year, now. We have 1/2 acre of oak trees, and we put in a great vegetable garden this summer, and I'm having a great time planting flowers in the front. I also make jewelry and sell on eBay. There is life after COL, and it is a very good life! I appreciate every day, every decision that I make for myself, and not having people reporting what I do or say to someone with absolute authority over my life. I am a much better person now than I was before JSW/COL, much as someone can become much more strong, caring and compassionate after living through a horrible tragedy or war. I still have memories that come back every day, and often think of things I wish I had the courage to say and stand up for while I was there.
“But my life is happy, and I have no desire to go back to cause anyone any trouble. However, if these posts help even one person to not get sucked in, or to leave, then hurray! And if they help those who have left to move on with their lives, then even better.”
bemused said, “Hi Carson, nice to hear from you again. I tried to contact you a while back. My hubby and I have friends who live near SLO and we are in the area periodically. It would be fun to catch up. Congratulations on becoming a Grandma, even if unofficially. I'm an aunt, and one of my nephews just had his first birthday.
“I continue to post here so that others are forewarned about Tae Yun, and perhaps about cults in general. I'm interested in the psychology of it, having studied psychology before. As an aside, I've been volunteering at a domestic violence agency, and I've found that the dynamics of domestic violence and cults are basically the same.
“Life after COL is indeed good. I have a local singer/songwriter thing going in coffeehouses and street fairs. My hubby sings with me. A lot of my friends are also local musicians. I also participate in my hubby's hobbies, which are Egyptology and historic preservation. My hubby just wrote a book, and I'm helping him promote it.
“Carson don't feel bad about what you didn't say while in COL. I sometimes wish I could have told Tae Yun off, but the social structure was such that no one could. Actions speak louder than words, and leaving COL sends a very big message.”
Kathy Kim said, “Congratulations Carson.. I have always said the best thing about being a parent is being a grandparent. So you just got right in there. I love babies. My oldest grandbaby is going to be 18 in December. What a joy she has been, plus I have 3 more, each being a joy, even though they are all teenagers. My family and Gods' work is what I love being part of. I have never been happier.
“Don't worry about not speaking up, no one would of listened. You would of just been blackballed. I agree with Bemused, people need to know. We went in blind, we were on a fast track of false love and belonging. She has some great ideas but they aren't the truth. There is some underlying way it is just for her. She is the one that will have to answer for her actions.
“It is good to see you both doing so well and happy in your lives. Get that baby and love it all you can Carson said, “, they grow right before your eyes, I can't believe mine are all teenagers, it went so fast. They are still the love of my life, but they are a little harder to cradle. They rock grandma in her rocking chair now.”
Carson said, “I actually did learn a lot of useful things during my 15 years of training, and I am a much better person and much happier and successful in my life for it. It's sad, because I really do believe that Tae Yun has a great amount of good to give, if it just wasn't mixed in with all the other stuff. In the end, it was the lies and the screaming and the blaming of others that I could no longer reconcile with myself, and could no longer be a part of.”
Kathy Kim said, “We can learn a lot out of the mistakes we make. I think that is when we learn the most. There was strict direction, dedication and hard work. Just funnel that to a "good cause" and it will be of fruitful in your life. The whole sum, comes down to, what do you really believe in? What and if it is doing any good, and for whom.”
Failed Student said, “I read the recent comment about optics with great interest. Not only did it scientifically dispel some concerns I had with seeing things while looking at a blank wall such as little specks, but explained to me the after- images I saw when Tae Yun had us do just that - stare and stare and stare.
“As for the susceptible types, I remember that Tae Yun wanted us to be childlike - an open mind, an empty cup, not wanting nor seeking rational explanations. I too had a traumatic childhood including sexual abuse, and perhaps I was searching for something that I could be comfortable with, someone I could trust.”
hyeongsa said, “I love that..."serious make under". Someone who recently stood under Tae Yun on her stage looked up to see under her jaw. They described it as looking like the edge of a pie where the crust is folded. Hmmm. Maybe one too many pulling the skin back.
“Bemused, this is great information. I still suffer from cult nightmares. Tae Yun appeared to me in a dream where she had a new plastic surgery, she looked like a snake. She was a blue snake complete with all the reptile/snake skin. How telling.
“Speaking of which, do you remember when we were told to meditate on her picture and stare into her eyes? How many hours did I do that? Too many. I recall a class where Tae Yun shared that a student had done such a great job of doing this, so much of "her energy was in him" that when he looked at himself in the mirror he saw her face. For this he received praise. Is it just me or is this a little extreme?
“The hypnosis was (is) rampant. Think of all the times we chanted endlessly. "Yo ho ah sa pa" comes to mind. (who the ho?) Anyway, what about Tae Yun, Tae Yun, taaaee yuunnn, Tae Yun, that was always in the top 3 chants we would do when Tae Yun was traveling. No wonder I am having Tae Yun snake face dreams.
“I am glad to have found this site and can talk to others who understand what we went through.”
Kathy Kim said, “I remember a class when she had us stare into the mirrors in the Dong Jang until we could really see ourselves for the monsters we were. It was quite an upsetting class. She brought up all kinds of negative and terrible things to make us think we looked like some scary Halloween creature. The Tae Yun chanting was tedious.....then staring at her picture on a table lit only by candle light. She wants to freeze her picture on your brain. A snake is a fitting replica of her actions hyeongsa. The Lord does see us through these times in life. I offer up prayers to all those who have been associated with her. On this day of Our Lady Queen of the Most Holy Rosary may she cast out all who present themselves as God like, when in fact it is just the opposite.”
bemused said, “The face-staring exercises in dim light are another hypnotic technique. There are several things going on. One is hypnotic suggestion, which by itself can make susceptible people hallucinate. Of course the suggestions are all positive when it's Tae Yun's face. Another is sensory deprivation, which can make anyone hallucinate eventually. Yet another is simple fatigue of the eyes. The rods and cones get saturated when you stare at something too long, which causes color-reversed afterimages. For the black-and-white rods, anything dark appears to glow. There's no magic, just psychology and physiology.
“Hyeongsa the nightmares are a symptom of PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder.
“I was reading a book on cult recovery called Take Back Your Life by Lalich and Tobias, which has a chapter on PTSD. I was shocked to find that I had many of the symptoms. I don't think I ever had full-blown PTSD, because nothing I witnessed was physically life-threatening and I wasn't impaired in my work or personal life. Still, even what's called a sub-clinical case of PTSD can be disturbing.
“Another book I recommend that focuses on PTSD is Trauma and Recovery by Judith Herman. She says there are three stages to recovery. The first is safety and rest, letting the body and mind heal and learning to relax again.
“The second is remembrance and mourning, taking stock of what happened and grieving the losses. The third is building community, reaching out to old and new loved ones and learning to trust again.
“When I first left COL, I was so exhausted that I couldn't go out after work two evenings in a row or I'd get sick. This lasted a year and a half. Fortunately my boss at the time issued me a laptop and let me work at home three days a week, so if I needed extra rest I could take it. I grieved both for the possibilities I missed while in COL and for the good things about COL. I also grieved for the people I left behind. To move forward I joined a songwriting organization and made lots of friends. I reconnected with my family and discovered how worried they had been about me. Then I met my husband and soul mate. His family accepted me as readily as my family accepted him, so now I have a strong network of support. Finding this forum thread has helped me with all three stages.”
hyeongsa said, “Carson you are right, we did learn a lot of good stuff while in Tae Yun's cult. It is so sad that she turned out to be the opposite of what she taught us. Think of what she could have had if only she had truly walked her talk. There were so many good people who had trained and were willing to sacrifice for our goals back then. So many talented people had been devoted to her cause and teachings. Tae Yun could have seen many if not all of her dreams come true. Now instead she finds herself dwindling instead of thriving.
“Kathy, first a big amen to your prayers and thank you for continuing to offer support to those who have left the cult and those still in it who are no doubt reading every word you write. The mirror classes were very strange.
“The lights dimmed just enough and of course stare at anything long enough and your eyes and mind will play tricks on you. I recall that part of the lesson was to not only see the "energy" we were carrying but also to see ourselves in our past life. At the end of class some expressed that they were a Viking or animal and all sorts of things. It seemed the scarier we saw ourselves, the more pleased Tae Yun was. Halloween creature? Yeah, that would score some brownie points.
“Bemused said I am going to look into those books on PTSD. Thank you for bringing great information on cult recovery.
“Tae Yun has many ways of using her manipulation on her students. One assignment was to write down every sin ever committed since birth. I am serious. Imagine what one goes through in such a self examination? Is this really healthy? Then on another level, why write it all down to give to her? On self discovery weekends or IT programs she also requires students to give her very personal information including to name a few, the 5 best times and 5 worst times in your life. Now that I think about it, how crafty. She can then use this information for her manipulation. Knowing what buttons to push to get you to do things her way and think her way. She also discussed these private writings with her instructors. Bemused, how does this play in to the cult aspect? Do these kinds of exercises linger beneath the surface of an "ex student"?”
Failed Student said, “Interesting comment Hyeongsa, concerning snakes. Tae Yun I believe has a fear of them, despite her (at that time) Buddhism. In that belief system, sentient beings are to be protected for they may be reincarnations of an ancestor. But I do remember Tae Yun referencing women she did not like as snakes. So it comes to pass that she appears to have snakelike aspects....ain't that a bitch...LOL!
“Sorry to hear you are in the nightmare stage of ex-cultism, but it will pass with time. You will start to have control of the situation in your dreams as I did, and in time you will vanquish those who I presume are pursuing you.”
bemused said, “One form of confession Tae Yun sometimes asked for during self-discovery weekends and at parties was the embarrassing moment story. Tae Yun even contributed her own, usually her story of how as a new immigrant she said, “ "F- you, I love America" without knowing what the F word meant. In addition to reinforcing self-surrender, I think this ritual got people used to the idea of confession itself. If you confess a little, chances are you'll confess more later, down a slippery slope.”
Failed Student said, “She especially liked confessions of a sexual nature. I think she was annoyed at me because I wasn't about to give up any of my past publicly - not that I had any great secrets anyway.
“Yes she told to F U story here too - not in class but to a couple of us over dinner. I rather doubt it actually happened that way, but just did it for shock value.
“That confessing of secrets is the Sword of Damocles they hold over you if you show indications of leaving. They mention it to you as a form of power and control.”
Failed Student said, “Well here's another contradiction with Tae Yun's presumed religious beliefs. Check out Psalm 25:6 "Remember not the sins of my youth and my transgressions"..... So God forgives, but Tae Yun wants to keep throwing it all back in one's face.. What a bitch!”
bemused said, “I'd like to see Tae Yun compile a list of all the sins she has committed since birth. I'll bet it would get pretty interesting starting in her late teens or early twenties. It would probably get even more interesting at the point at which she first recruited a following. But of course, Tae Yun would never write such a list. She would claim she had nothing to write about.
“Regardless of what she sees or does, she says things like, "My soul is pure, so the bad energy never touches me." If she was once a prostitute as her ex-husband claims, this would make the word "touches" rather tricky to define. Then she insists that her followers provide a special pillow for her to sit on and special dishes to use at restaurants so she won't get cooties from the rest of humanity. Her followers, who are supposedly weaker in the face of all that bad energy out there, get no such special protection.
“No matter how controlling, abusive, or just plain peevish she gets, it's somehow justifiable because of who she is. Society's rules don't apply to her. Even her own rules don't apply to her. She seems to think God has personally given her a Get Out of Hell Free card.”
hyeongsa said, “She might think she has a "Get Out of Hell Free" card, she certainly does act like it. Tae Yun believes she is above the law and too good to sit her butt where anyone else ever has. Special pillow and special dishes are just the beginning.
“Tae Yun is not sick nor does she have anything physically wrong with her that would prevent her from doing the things she demands her COL students do:
Clean her home top to bottom. Clean her bedroom and bathroom. Do her laundry. Put her shoes on and take her shoes off. Paint her toenails. Cook for her. Wait on her guests. Wash her dishes. Answer her phone.Do her gardening. Feed and care for her dogs. Wash, gas up and maintain her car. Drive her everywhere. Pack for her vacations and trips. Do her grocery shopping.
“To name a few, and these are only her personal needs, they don't include business needs which some might be appropriate for a real CEO of a huge corporation.
“Basically imagine coming home and from the moment you drive up until you send your worshipers to sleep, your every need is cared for. You don't even bend over to take off your own shoes, pick up a dish or know how to work the washing machine. I can't think of another able bodied person who lives this way.
“Oh, and one more thing, Tae Yun does not pay for this pampered treatment. How many leisure hours did you spend on "cleaning parties"? For me, into the tens of thousands. It isn't about getting paid, it is about owning your own life and being able to do what you want with it. Helping to clean once in awhile is OK but COL people, how many times did you get that phone call and wish you could sleep in on a Sunday or do the things YOU wanted to do with your time? Its not too late.”
bemused said, “The funny thing was that we were told we should be honored to be asked to do all those things for Tae Yun. I've heard that sometimes students would fight over who got to carry that pillow or set out those dishes at restaurants. Alas, I was a lowly peon who only got to clean her house, go grocery shopping, help cook, and wash dishes. I got to clean her bedroom once and was surprised that she had at least a Queen sized mattress in a full bedroom set. No sleeping on the floor in sleeping bags for her!
It's a bit like Tom Sawyer getting his friends to whitewash the fence for him in that famous novel. But Tom only talked up how great the activity was, not how great he was.”
bemused said, “Yesterday's rant may seem to some people like protesting too much. I don't deny that there are factors that make some people more susceptible to cult recruitment than others: loss, transition, loneliness, depression, idealism, naïveté, hypnotizable.
“My point is that blaming the victim, which is distressingly common, excuses and enables the perpetrator. If decent people thought it through and fully realized that this is what blaming the victim does, they wouldn't do it.
“Rather than asking how people join cults, we should be asking how cult leaders recruit followers. Cult leaders know that they demand a lot of their followers, and that their followers must quickly learn the many skills necessary for maintaining the cult leader's image. Cult leaders seek intelligent, conscientious, hard-working people. Slackers are a drain on a cult and don't last long. People with below-average intelligence can't always master the doublethink necessary for presenting the cult to the outside world and are likely to embarrass the cult leader. They are also more limited in what they can contribute to the group.
“Tae Yun used to ask her COL students who of the new martial arts students we thought should be invited into COL. We tended to suggest the most physically talented or socially adept of them. Then Tae Yun would name students we hadn't thought of, some of whom were quiet and lonely, some of whom were disagreeable and later turned out to be lonely underneath. True, she didn't like people who were too skeptical. But I never saw her pick a stupid person. (For a while Tae Yun doted on a little girl with Down Syndrome, but it was because her part-time COL parents were very smart and therefore valuable.)
Then they discuss the sweat lodge or som tong experience, said PP. This was inspired by a recent news story on a James Ray who had a lodge where someone died from overexposure.
Failed Student said, “We had something called "Ultimate Weekends" when madame was in Vermont. One night of the weekend was the sweat lodge equivalent complete with hot rocks in a hole and cold water thrown on them. We were all nude, male and female, and I worried that the cold on hot would cause a rock to shatter and do some serious damage. Anyway, it was an intense session of chanting. Nobody had heatstroke or similar, but certainly those who were not physically fit could have had similar problems as the Arizona situation.”
bemused said, “By the time Tae Yun reached CA she was calling these Self-Discovery Weekends. The highlight was the Sam Tang Tae Yun got all huffy if you called her holy rite a sweat lodge or sauna. Tae Yun was smarter about it than that James Ray guy though. Only 10-12 people at a time went in, and I'm not sure of the duration, but it wasn't two hours. We also didn't fast for three days prior.
“I'm not sure if Tae Yun even does Self-Discovery Weekends anymore. Special events for students started dwindling not long before the mass exodus in 1998. Tae Yun even speculated that providing fewer special programs might have made the part-timers less enthusiastic and more restless, decreasing their motivation to stay in COL.
“It's not the sweat lodge vs. Sam Tang comparison that most interests me. It's the way both James Ray and Tae Yun justify their actions and convince their followers to forgive them using New Age BS.”
Failed Student said, “ I wouldn't be surprised if they'd both blame the victim too. You know like "it was your choice to do this", and thus exculpate themselves.
“It was a bit different here in VT. Tae Yun's mother had a Buddhist temple and that was the main force behind these weekends. So there was meditation and martial arts and sweat tent and not much sleep. (I can start a whole other thread about that temple and how we were pressured to give money to it.) Accommodations were primitive at best, the bacteria count in the water provided was probably off the scale, and I didn't like sharing my feelings of the weekend with the group.
bemused said, “Turns out that is exactly what James Arthur Ray is doing. Or rather, that's what an assistant of his named "Barb" implied: "They left their bodies during the ceremony and had so much fun they chose not to come back." Yeah, right.
“Tae Yun has never faced a situation that dire, and I hope she never does, mainly for the sake of her followers. But Tae Yun has blamed the victim too.
“Tae Yun convinced a follower of hers, AP, to stop taking medication. When AP suffered permanent damage as a result, Tae Yun pulled back and said, “ that it was AP's choice to stop. Tae Yun also added some crap about how AP "didn't trust her enough" for the healing to work. Maybe AP overestimated Tae Yun's abilities, but that doesn't excuse what Tae Yun did, which was to apply pressure and then deny responsibility.”
Shadow Dancer said, “The insurance policy for Faith Healers is: You will be cured only if your faith is strong enough.”
hyeongsa said, “The sweat lodge death (on the news) gives new meaning to the t-shirt "I Survived the Som Tong" that was available after SDW's. There was occasion when weekend participants refused to take part in the som tong ritual. They were labeled "untrusting" and sometimes even driven home the next morning. She didn't want to give cause for others to stop and think on their own or join in with anyone doubting her methods. Tae Yun is always good about removing anyone who does not go along with her, no matter how crazy she is. I guess you are a lucky one to be driven away, it was those of us who were deeply involved that had to face ridicule, group pressure and at times beatings because we had the nerve to speak up or have a thought of our own.
“There are countless times our "trust" in Tae Yun was tested. Who remembers when we were all asked to run as fast as we could across the Do Jang while blindfolded? The purpose was for Tae Yun to prove we could trust her even in the midst of doing something obviously very dangerous.
“She had the instructors line up in the front while she stood on her stage and shouted "Go!". They were meant to stop us before we hit the stage. Unfortunately one JSW student ran very fast to show his trust and the instructors couldn't stop him. He hit his head on a beam. Game over after that. She blamed her instructors and not herself for orchestrating such a lame exercise.
“Looking back, how telling it was. Tae Yun having us run full force towards her with blindfolds on. A perfect physical manifestation of our lives in COL under Tae Yun's manipulation.”
bemused said, “Wow, Hyeongsa, that's quite a story. It must have happened after I left. I hope the student who hit his head on a beam came out all right.
“At a backyard pool party, Tae Yun asked us to have faith and jump into the pool. AS did so even though he couldn't swim, and he started to drown. The instructors quickly pulled him out. This is ironic because for a long time Tae Yun herself was afraid of the water.
“Ah, faith. I've thought a lot about it. I think it's part of the way our brains work because as children we need to trust adults so we don't have to learn everything by trial and error. It persists into adulthood because we can't possibly learn everything there is to know on our own. It's a powerful mental shortcut, but it can make us vulnerable to believing and doing things without using our ability to reason.
“Cult leaders love tests of faith, the more absurd, the better. They know they're really in control if they can get their followers to do absolutely anything without thinking.”
Failed Student said, “The two previous posts make me realize how far removed I am from the madness of Tae Yun Kim, both in time and in my life process. At the least, she is deranged, asking to have absolute power over her followers. It is criminal to ask a student to stop taking vital medication and "trust" in her. Trust seems to be the operative word with her. If you don't go along with her craziness, then you don't "trust" her.
“Hyeongsa, I'd be curious to know what rituals were declined by Som Tong participants. I'm sure it was more than my reluctance to go butt naked into the sweat tent. There were people who came to our Ultimate Weekend and one actually hid in the woods rather than participate. Tae Yun explained away this situation by saying the guy had the hots for her and felt ashamed. Oh puhleeze!”
Kathy Kim said, “I liked the Som Tong only because I felt the toxins leaving my body through the sweating. But we weren't in there very long and we went to it after we had a big meal.
“I know when my niece came to SDW...she didn't go to the Som Tang, Tae Yun just kind of ignored her the rest of the weekend. But it didn't matter to my niece cause she didn't like her, and hated her actually for she felt she took me away from my family.
Kathy Kim said, “I do remember them saying the Sam Tang could be toxic itself if the rocks weren't clean, that they couldn't have anything on them at all. Maybe one of the instructors that brought the rocks to it could explain more.
“I found some info on the benefits and dangers of the sauna, which is what the Sam Tang is, despite Tae Yun's religious redress of it. It can be beneficial, but it can be deadly if not conducted properly or for people with certain medical conditions.
Wikipedia (Links) Sauna
“Tae Yun was smart to limit the number of people and the duration. She was also smart to have people chant the entire time. That way, if someone stopped chanting, she would know there was something wrong. She did some stupid things, but as far as I was able to observe, she conducted the Sam Tang responsibly.
“I remember one woman who asked to be let out of the Sam Tang early but who otherwise seemed to enjoy the weekend. She was a JSW student, but non-COL. I don't remember her being given a hard time about it. I also remember a couple of times when attendees refused to go in, but I don't remember what was said, “ to them. Tae Yun was selective about applying pressure.
“Tae Yun had a thing about not letting women on their period into the Sam Tang. A woman can be mildly anemic at this time of the month, but I don't see how this matters if the woman is healthy otherwise. I think it was some sort of religious "impurity" thing.
“I can only remember one person who had a major problem in the Sam Tang, and it was psychological, not physical. I was in the Sam Tang when it happened. Tae Yun was going on about rebirth, as she typically did. A non-JSW, non-COL attendee freaked out, claiming to remember her mother holding her legs together to try to prevent her from being born. She started screaming. Tae Yun had the woman sit next to her so she could calm the woman down, which she succeeded in doing.
“I was among those who enjoyed the Sam Tang. I felt very relaxed afterwards.”
bemused said, “Tae Yun's slogans are ironic, to say the least.
"Become the driver in your life"
“In COL, you need permission to deviate from your daily COL-Lighthouse-JSW circuit, to see your family or spend time with non-COL people, or to have a romantic relationship. Such relationships must be with another COL student of the opposite sex, with Tae Yun's permission and full knowledge of what you do together. In COL, Tae Yun is the driver in your life.
"Not be a pond fish"
“COL is a small pond dominated by one enormously bloated fish: Tae Yun. The other fish can't grow very big because Tae Yun takes most of the food. They can't swim very far without bumping into Tae Yun, and Tae Yun likes it that way. To be an ocean fish, you have to leave COL.
"Take ownership of your life"
"Ownership" and "driving" are used in the same metaphoric sense, and in COL, Tae Yun is the owner of your life. In the literal sense, everything Tae Yun uses except Lighthouse is owned by her fanatically loyal senior instructors, but in name only. When Adam G left COL, he lost the assets with which he had been entrusted. Tae Yun doesn't fully trust her most devoted minions though. When she was thinking about moving to New Mexico, she had Scott and Sarah K. buy a house together. Scott is married to EAS and Sarah K. to TCS, so if Scott or Sarah K. ever tried to claim ownership, it would be messy.
“If you are a not so privileged COL student, you are lucky if you own even a used car. Tae Yun overcharges and underpays her COL students, leaving them so broke they can barely get by. Most have huge credit card debts, and at least four have filed for bankruptcy. "Ownership" is a better term for being in COL.
"Be the true Warrior"
“The dictionary definition of "warrior" is "a man engaged or experienced in warfare" or "a person engaged in some struggle or conflict." Obviously the first definition doesn't apply. But being in COL can really be a struggle. To "spread Grandmaster's energy" to an unwilling world can be frustrating and even humiliating. But it's not a struggle akin to the War on Poverty. It's not even close.
“Much of that "struggle" is Tae Yun's delusional paranoia. She thinks she's so cosmically important that Satan himself is thwarting her plans. This "struggle" is nothing more than a fantasy.
"Make a difference"
“Tae Yun has helped some people. They've quit smoking/drinking/drugs, lost weight, or resolved personal problems. Non-COL martial arts students often do better because Tae Yun demands less of them. COL students are constantly reminded of how Tae Yun has helped them as a guilt trip to make them work harder. But can her help be compared to, say, the Betty Ford Center, Weight Watchers, or cognitive-behavioral therapy, which have helped tens of thousands with measurable effectiveness? I don't think so.”
bemused said, “Some other ironic Tae Yun slogans come to mind.
"Be an original, not a copy"
“I've talked about this one before. Tae Yun allows some individuality in COL because her "team members" have to specialize to get done what she wants. However, in COL she doesn't tolerate original thoughts that disagree with hers. She strongly discourages COL students spending time on things that don't benefit her (my music, for example). In public she insists that COL students dress in a style that is consistent with but not flashier than hers. She even once told COL how to vote. The funniest illustration of the irony of this slogan occurred when she put it on a T-shirt. Outsiders asked us how we were supposed to be originals if we all wore the same shirt. Tae Yun didn't get the joke.
"Don't serve money, let money serve you"
“In COL, only Tae Yun gets to live this way. Her underpaying and overcharging of COL students guarantees that they are struggling financially and dependent on her. Now that I'm out of COL and out of debt, I find that a typical middle-class salary with benefits gives me more than I need.
"Listen to your Silent Master"
“Tae Yun describes the Silent Master as the wise inner voice. If you're in COL, your Silent Master must agree with Tae Yun. If it doesn't, it isn't really your Silent Master. So if your wise inner voice questions Tae Yun's wealth, hypocrisy, lies, or punishments, you can't listen to it.”
bemused said, “It's ironic that Tae Yun's most honest slogans are about deceiving outsiders.
"Wear a red coat"
“Tae Yun tells a story about a virtuous town in which everyone wears blue coats and a vice-ridden town in which everyone wears red coats. When a resident of the first town decides to convert people in the second, he wears a red coat to fit in. COL students are supposed to hide their COL weirdness and pretend to be normal around non-COL people.
"Don't feed steak to a baby"
“Tae Yun tells COL students not to reveal too much to a Jung Suwon student with COL potential. She also tells them not to enforce COL rules too harshly with a brand new COL member. This prevents recruits from fully knowing about what they're committing to before they make the commitment. By the time they know what COL is really like, they're too invested physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, and financially to leave easily.
"Family PR"
“Tae Yun wants her COL students to present her and their involvement with her to their families in a positive light. She wants them to communicate with and visit their families just often enough that their families don't complain. And of course COL students are encouraged to lie to their families about things such as their living conditions, their pay, and so on. When families visit the martial arts school or Lighthouse, they see only what Tae Yun wants them to see. “
bemused said, "Don't feed steak to a baby"
“Tae Yun tells COL students not to reveal too much to a Jung Suwon student with COL potential. She also tells them not to enforce COL rules too harshly with a brand new COL member. This prevents recruits from fully knowing about what they're committing to before they make the commitment. By the time they know what COL is really like, they're too invested physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, and financially to leave easily.
“I do believe that's known as "bait and switch" and is a deceptive business practice. Doesn't surprise me though, Tae Yun did that to me too.”
hyeongsa said, “Bemused, I enjoyed reading your explanation of Tae Yun's sayings. Very funny, especially the "enormously bloated fish", it fits her perfectly.
“Tae Yun will always be in charge of who will own what, with whom, and when it will be purchased, sometimes even to the minute. Having your roommate chosen by her was a crap shoot. You could end up with someone you get along with or, if she is pissed off at you, end up with someone you least wanted to share a room with. It wouldn't be uncommon to receive a phone call in the middle of the night and be told to get up and change rooms. Can you say "control freak"?
“Speaking of which, who remembers sharing a "master bedroom" between 5 people, or was it more? Or an 8' by 10' with 2 people? We couldn't have had beds even if we were "allowed" to. There wasn't enough room. Other rules included having a meditation table, aka: shrine to Tae Yun and no family pictures could be displayed anywhere.
“Yeah, about the cars. Only the "instructors" could have really nice cars while the others drove turds. Come to think of it, mostly it was/is the women who drove the turds.”
hyeongsa said, “Amen to that Failed Student.”
bemused said, “Looking back at my COL roommate situations, I wonder whether I was being punished or the punishment. In some situations it was probably both. Because I tended to be neat I would often be paired with someone who was messy The Odd Couple, COL style.
“I remember one house that the COL women shared for a while where JM, myself, HC, and two other women (KH and CKC, I think) all crowded into the master bedroom. We had to be careful where we stepped at night.
“The funniest incident at this house concerned CKC, who was hard of hearing and had to use an alarm clock that could wake the dead. None of her roommates could stand it.
“One night she slept in the bathtub. I went in early to take a shower and pulled the curtain back. Both of us screamed.
“There was a definite car hierarchy. Tae Yun had a huge Mercedes. The instructors all had BMWs. Pretty much everyone else had used cars. There were a few Ford Tauruses as I recall, and a few Japanese cars. I had two Hyundais. Each lasted five years, then just died. A few people didn't have cars and had to borrow them from those who did. I dreaded having someone borrow my car, because people would leave empty soda bottles and junk in it.”
bemused said, “Speaking of cars, EAS and Sarah K. each totaled a few (the instructors called EAS "Cap'n Crunch" for a while). I think this was because they were so overworked that they fell asleep at the wheel. They're lucky they never hurt themselves or anyone else.”
bemused said, “At least Tae Yun didn't imprison people on ships. Tae Yun's house arrest of Juliana came close though. If Juliana had wanted to escape from Stargazer, she would have had to climb over the fence and walk out to the 680 freeway from rural Fremont with nothing but the clothes on her back. Since she was restricted to water and rice porridge, such a climb and walk would not have been easy. At least Tae Yun didn't take away her cell phone.”
bemused said, “I was just reading about how Sun Myung Moon's sons Hyung-Jin and Preston are already vying for power and the elder Moon isn't even dead yet. It got me thinking about possible succession in Tae Yun's cult. Previous posts have stated that Tae Yun's will leaves everything to her family, and that she wants her sister EK to take over her businesses, including her martial arts school.
“This seems like an unlikely scenario to me. Supposedly most of Tae Yun's major assets are in instructors' names. EK seems even more clueless about business and technology than Tae Yun. The instructors know her, and they even pamper her when she visits, but they don't really respect her. If she were to try to take over, I doubt the COLies would hang on her every word the way they do with Tae Yun. At best they would keep her in a pampered nest and continue with business as usual. At worst they would find a way to kick her out. That's my guess anyway, based on what I saw when I was in COL.
“What's more likely is that Scott would try to rule with an iron fist, and that there would be some resistance to him, because he can't fake compassion or tell people what they want to hear the way Tae Yun can. It's possible that the main challenge would come from Michael F., because he has much better people skills. But I think another likely challenger would be Sarah K., who is best qualified to take over the "female martial artist" mystique. Whatever happens, it could end up being very entertaining.”
bemused said, “I hope EAS doesn't take my assessment of Sarah K. the wrong way. Sarah K. is better at working a crowd, a necessary aspect of charisma. It also helps that she's Korean, like Tae Yun. For better or worse, it's all about public image.”
hyeongsa said, “When Tae Yun is gone, the cult will be gone too. That's my opinion. Then perhaps LWS and JSW can stand a chance of being successful. The creepiness of Tae Yun will be gone and then things can be more legitimate. No one will follow the stupid rituals like rebirth bowing or chant an instructor's name. Not going to happen. They might try and "channel" with Tae Yun from beyond but even that will fade with time.
“I remember that Tae Yun told us she would come to "haunt" us from beyond the grave and that we had better watch how we behave. Yeah. Good luck with that.”
Kathy Kim said, “I agree, when she is gone, the cult will be gone. Since people left, that I thought would never leave, the rest will banish too. Maybe even before she dies. The school as it is, or was, is good. The rest I don't know. Hopefully people don't continue working for free. It is hard to live on when you are older.
Failed Student said, “Oh for crissakes, Tae Yun doesn't have an original thought in her repertoire. That line is out of some movie I saw once. I remember her once saying to me "frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn". Straight out of "Gone With the Wind". And she says to "be an original"?”
bemused said, “Dissolution of the cult is a definite possibility. I noticed when I was at Lighthouse's outposts in Asia that those guys pretty much did as they pleased, even though they had shrines to Tae Yun in their living quarters. I don't think dissolution would happen immediately though. The COLies might try to rally, and they might fail.
“If COL dissolves, Lighthouse might survive as a company, but I doubt that the Jung Suwon school would, at least not in its current form. It might morph into a more normal TKD school without the Tae Yun-worship. I'm pretty certain that Scott's heavy-handed "leadership" style would not be tolerated in either place though.
“If Scott and the other instructors wanted to keep people in LWS and JSW post-COL, they would have to actually be nice to them, pay them well, let them have lives. None of them seem to be sufficiently charismatic or manipulative to keep people in the cult the way Tae Yun did.
“You never know though. $cientology lost L. Ron Hubbard but is now led by David Miscavige. I've heard that the surviving Branch Davidians are now led by someone as wacko as David Koresh was. The Mormon Church rallied around Brigham Young after Joseph Smith was killed.
“Tae Yun tends to haunt people for a while even though she's not dead yet. Many people who leave cults have PTSD-like symptoms, including nightmares and flashbacks. But these fade with time.”
hyeongsa said, “I think the cult is already falling apart in a lot of ways. JSW has potential but isn't taught by senior instructors as it was back in the days of the Milpitas location. Many of her current black belts are not even close to the caliper of the instructors she had before. That being the case, the school may be best suited for the tiny warriors and may succeed in that arena.
“The COL people are paid just the minimum that they need to get by, adding an occasional movie or chipping in for Tae Yun's fur coats and lavish accessories. I guess that is pretty much working for free. Nothing left over for any sort of savings and yes, it is much more difficult to move on when you get older. There are some still devoted that will have a very hard time as they leave or the cult dissolves with Tae Yun passing.”
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