Lesson said, “Tae Yun can deny she had a relationship with Adam G all she wants....so what about the others? How many were there? How many have left and still kept her secrecy? I've always wondered and had my strong suspicions about many.
“Tae Yun beat and humiliated everyone because of their sexual drive, yet she was fornicating with most the instructors, watching porn, having phone sex with them (this I know to be true as I heard this disgusting old lady saying repulsive things). My belief is if these young men were not brainwashed when they were very young, which she has to do to bed them, they would laugh in her face at her suggestion.
“Too bad she did not have to write a journal for everyone to read. If she were honest with all that she has done, it would be like the devil herself wrote it.”
Then Juliana said, “SarahAlexKim said, chica, Juliana, ryanbeld, Jacob, I have a question for you: Do you hate Grandmaster?
“No Sarah, I don't hate Grandmaster, but I've been extremely, extremely disappointed and felt betrayed by the web of lies and deceptions that she snared my life within. If she was upfront and honest about all the deceptions and lies I would feel that people from this point forward could make an honest and willful choice to become involved with her, but I haven't seen or heard any desire from her to come clean on all of the lies and deceptions.
“What about you? Do you hate the people you listed? It's not about hate or love, it's about being able to make willful choices based an a truthful Reality.”
Kathy said, “Would any of the ex-colers like to enlighten everyone as to the reason that Tae Yun's marriage was annulled? Or the reason Tae Yun said it was. I have heard the stories, but I want someone that was there to tell what she had to say about it. Then look at the legal papers. That proves she lies. The stories are nowhere near the truth. It bothered her that her lies couldn't work and even get him to talk to her. That is the reason she hates me. Because I told the truth. How many lies do you know that she has told and still believe in her? When is the lie going to be about you? Everyone knows how she works. If she needs something from you, she is nicer to you. When you are no longer needed, you will be gone.
“I laugh at the thought of anyone being afraid of me. What am I going to do? Throw some truth out there for people to hear?
“Oh I forgot.. maybe she is afraid of all the information being shared by all those out of col? Who knows what secrets? Who knows what has been told or done to ex-coler's? Maybe even people forgive the people who have done things to them. Everyone knows where the orders came from. You are led to believe that person is just terrible and that this will show them. Do you still have the tapes when you tapped my phone?
“I heard it was in many COL classes. People can be wire tapped from even a different state now. How many phones are really tap free?
“I remember all the hateful things Tae Yun said about JAB. Then I met her, lots of lies again from Tae Yun. JAB (a former student) is a very nice person and she was just another person that Tae Yun took advantage of. When Tae Yun doesn't want you to know the truth, or she gets caught in something she did wrong, out come the lies. You just don't see the lies till you finally leave and can really open your eyes. But time marches on and it looks like time is on our side.”
Her Lesson said, “Please forgive me if I sound harsh. I have gotten to know most of you and have become fond of each one you and it angers me to hear you were hurt. I obviously do not understand. Also, it hurts me to know that she has talked behind your backs and told outsiders about your life and she now takes credit for who you are now.
“As an outsider, I can honestly say that even the Col'ers who are there today are really nice and smart people. I liked each one of them and Scott was always very nice to me and a gentleman. I guess that's why it is so difficult for me to understand why he and everyone allows such abuse from someone who truly does not care for them. She says she loves them as she told Adam G. but her actions speak much louder. Would you or could you treat someone you love the way she treats you? Just think about it, please.”
SarahAlexKim had a rebuttal and she outted everyone said, “First of all, Juliana, I’m sorry to have to disappoint you, but it’s just me. Sarah. No one is standing behind me dictating anything. No one is using my name. Sorry to debunk your conspiracy theory.
“I asked you all that particular question because everything that you have been saying makes me believe that you hate Grandmaster. You say you don’t, and I’m glad you say you don’t, but it just doesn’t seem possible that you don’t based on all that you have said here.
“You said you have questions that you want answered…and you honestly think this is the way they will get answered? You think by attacking Grandmaster and all of us who are seriously training that this is the way you will heal yourself and resolve your hearts? Doesn’t make sense.
“I will say that of anyone on this forum, Patrick, you have been the most civil…well, most of the time.
“Sandra, Jacob, I don’t care who your friends are. You can hang out with everyone on this forum for all I care…you want to be buddy-buddy friends with Jeff Halpin? More power to you!
“That’s your choice. You make your decisions in your life. I make mine. When I wake up in the morning, when I go to work, when I see who is next to me, I know that I can count on the people in my life. I can count on them to be there for me. If you can say that about your life, good for you!
Sarah continued, “I have been pondering for some time on how to respond to all of the accusations that you have all made, the claims to “truth”, statements of so-called, alleged “fact”…
“I am sorry to disappoint you, but there have been no classes, no meetings, no “all-nighters” as a response to any of your posts. None. I go to bed more or less around midnight, and I sleep peacefully until 6 or 6:30am when I start my day. On the weekends, I sleep in and get up at 7 or 8 or sometimes 9am. You think that’s still early? So sue me. I live a disciplined life where I am working to make positive changes in the world. I decide when I need to get up & I decide what “sleeping in” means to me. That’s the joy of freedom in this great country of ours.
“Contrary to your beliefs, I have not consulted with anyone about posting here. This is all from me. This is not a “pre-edited, pre-digested response” that has anyone’s “stamp of approval” but my own. Yes, I have the ability to think on my own and stand on my own two feet. Surprised?
“I’m sorry that you have been led to believe certain things or were told certain things as if they were fact.
“There have been no beatings, no abuse, no food deprivation, no sleep deprivation, none of that. I sleep in a very comfortable bed that I love. As a matter of fact, a couple of mornings ago, I woke up at 5:00am, an hour and a half before my alarm was set to go off, in a very peaceful state, thinking if I should try to get more sleep or just get up. For the record, I got up and was at work by 6:00am.
“I have never heard anyone refer to any of you as “failed students”. I hate to disappoint you, but I have never heard your names brought up in any conversation with anyone here. You are not in our thoughts; why would you be in our conversations?
“Though, Sandra, when you graduated from college and went to Spain, Grandmaster did speak about you a lot …about how proud she was that you were there, taking charge of your life, doing what you were doing. How it is not easy to travel to another country alone and find a job. How it is great that you made it through college on your own, that you were independent and able to take care of yourself.
“Other than that, all you former students of Jung Suwon, even the ones who are secretly lurking on this forum and especially you, Anne Shatting, I’m sorry but you are just not talked about. Not that it is “taboo” to talk about you, but there is just no reason to. Most people don’t even remember your names much less anything about you. How long have you all been gone for? 5 yrs? 10 yrs? 15 yrs? Longer?
“And there was a comment earlier about former students not staying in touch? Well, that is just not true either.
Sarah continued, “There are many people who used to train here who keep in touch, send letters, emails or yearly Christmas cards and share what they are going through, new babies in their lives, growing up, new jobs, sporting competitions etc. It is actually fantastic to hear from students who used to train…they share that their son is now a national competitor in this or that sport, they share that they are going to have baby #2, they share all sorts of things. I love it and I love hearing from them! It’s great when someone can take a different path in their lives, and still send updates now and then to keep in touch.
“And I hate to break it to you, Sandra, but the feelings that you have expressed regarding the experiences that you have described so creatively about on this site are actually very normal of any child or teenager growing up. Your life situation may have been different and the specific experiences may have been different, but your feelings and reactions are the same. I had them too.
“As adults, we try to compensate for the way we were raised. We want our own kids to do better than us, to succeed where we might have failed. But in Reality, there is no “parent manual” and your kids are different from who you were when you were a kid so there really are no guarantees.
“But there is one guarantee here: Sandra, if you were ever in serious trouble…real serious trouble and you needed help…for anything… Grandmaster would be right there.
“I remember years ago, after you had already gone out on your own, not hearing from you for months…then one day, you had some issue, some sort of personal problem. You wrote to or called Grandmaster Kim and Grandmaster invited you to her home and stayed up all night talking with you. I think this happened more than once?
“I remember not hearing from Patrick for months and months until one day, I heard he was in jail and who came to bail you out? You’ve already talked about this on this forum. It was Grandmaster.
“Believe me, Grandmaster does think about both of you and if either of you were in real trouble, if you called Grandmaster and asked for help, she would be there for you.
Sarah continued, “I have seen Grandmaster Kim’s degrees, awards, trophies, photos. I have seen her ranks on paper, all signed officially from Tang Soo Do, Moo Duk Kwon, and other federations and associations, etc...I couldn’t even name them all. They were all hanging up at Jung Suwon in San Jose.
“Let me share something about this: I have seen numerous Grandmasters, Korean men, who are more senior in rank and age than Grandmaster Tae Yun Kim, come to Grandmaster Kim and ask to be taught. I have seen them have classes for hours and hours where they asked all sorts of questions and Grandmaster Kim taught them. I saw one very high ranking Grandmaster from England actually cry during a meeting because he realized that there was so much that he hadn’t learned over the course of his 70+ years of life and that Grandmaster Kim could teach him. So he asked Grandmaster Kim to be his teacher. I have seen other Grandmasters have a full on class with Grandmaster Kim about the meaning of the joon-bee ready position and horse riding stance and hand techniques or how to run a successful martial art class.
“These other Grandmasters have been through history with Grandmaster Kim...from the beginning. They all came from Korea. They were all the original Grandmasters, the owners of the countless numbers of dojangs throughout the US and around the world. They would know who was real and who wasn’t, don’t you think?
“Many years ago, they didn’t give Grandmaster Kim any respect because they all thought they were better at the martial arts than she was…they all thought that because she was a woman, she didn’t deserve to be treated with respect. (that’s how most Korean men treat Korean women) Do you think, that after ALL of that, after their years and years of history together, that they would treat her with so much reverence and honor if they thought she was anything but who she is?
“Most Korean men are so arrogant. Do you think they would go through all of that to humble themselves if they didn’t really know who Grandmaster Tae Yun Kim is? Especially with a camera right there to document the whole thing? It was mind-boggling for me to be a witness to these times because I have grown up with Korean men all my life. I know about their attitudes about women. I have seen how they treat women. And to see them humble themselves and admit that they don’t have anything more to teach their students, that they would trade 1000 of their black belts for just one of Grandmaster Kim’s black belts and that they wanted Grandmaster Kim to teach them…each time this happens, it has been miraculous to say the least.
“Jung Suwon received an email last week from someone in Australia who wrote at the end: “In closing I would like you to know that reading Seven Steps to Inner Power has had a remarkable positive effect on my life. Thank you so much.” Wonderful! That is what Grandmaster Kim is all about. What Grandmaster Kim is about is helping people.
“And as for all the personal and private stuff…well, it’s just that. Personal and private. My personal and private life is also personal & private, but I have to say something to Anne Shatting and to all you yahoos out there who love to psychoanalyze everything:
Sarah Kim said, “My marriage was not arranged. I laughed so hard when I read that. If you even knew me for a second, you would know that I’m not the type of person to be in an arranged marriage. Trust me. My mom tried for years to set me up with the sons of her friends...
“My husband & I were in a relationship for 7 years before we got married. We didn’t rush into it. We have been married for almost 10 years. And every day is like the first day. Every year is like the first year. We started our honeymoon 10 years ago, and we are still on it! What do you think about that? We fell in love with each other and have been in love ever since. Some say you will recognize love when it truly happens, and I can say confidently that I did and that it did happen to me.
“And for the last time, Anne, please stop saying that I’m not allowed to be intimate with my husband. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. My intimate life is private. And not you or anyone knows anything about it. I will say one thing: it is very, very, very healthy. And that’s all that I will say about that. So please get out of my bedroom, Anne. You know nothing about me or my marriage.
“If you ever saw us together in public, you won’t see us being all lovey dovey and all over each other. That is a personal choice. Our intimacy is private. We don’t expose ourselves in public. So some people may not realize that we are married. So what? Is there a law that says we have to act a certain way in public? We love each other very deeply, but we are not clingy and co-dependent on each other…like many dysfunctional relationships out there.
“Even when he travels to other countries, we are still together. We are always together no matter how far apart we physically are. It is a beautiful relationship and I am sorry that you have no idea what that is like. I wish you did. I wish everyone did.
“And I have said throughout my life even before I started training, that if I ever got married, I wouldn’t change my last name. If you knew me, you would know that I have always felt this way. I decided years before I was training at Jung Suwon that if I ever decided to change my last name because I got married, it would be because we both picked a new last name together.
“(Oh, and by the way, in Korea, the woman actually doesn’t change her last name. Traditionally, the wife keeps her last name.)
“Again, for the record, Grandmaster Kim’s personal and private life is just that: personal and private. It’s none of my business; it’s none of your business. Though, I have to address one issue regarding this.
“Grandmaster Kim did have cancer. It was breast cancer. She publicly announced this many times and I, myself, was a witness to the physical effects.
“If you had seen what the 13 hour surgery had done, you would’ve cried. I did. I cried very hard and almost threw up. It wasn’t something that anyone should have to go through. Shame on you for trivializing the serious pain and agony that someone had to endure because of breast cancer.
Sarah Kim said, “Yeoman, you asked me why do I love Grandmaster Tae Yun Kim? I love Grandmaster Tae Yun Kim because I see how much she loves people, how much she helps people, how much she cares about people, and how much she has helped me in my life.
“I see her love when she is teaching me and pushing me to become stronger in my life and to have more confidence in my Self. I see her love when she works with the 2 and 3 year olds in Jung Suwon class and I watch their eyes sparkle as they learn new things.
“I see it when the 50 year old man can’t stretch and she helps him to stretch a little farther and he smiles because he never thought he could stretch that far.
“I see it when a young boy lacks self-confidence in class and she encourages him and gives him a situation where he can bring his self-confidence up and how proud of himself he is afterwards.
“I see it when she works with a woman whose spirit is crushed because she has been raped multiple times and gradually, that woman’s spirit strengthens as she learns to let go of the fear and pain.
“I see it when she is speaking to a group of battered women and I watch the pain in their faces fade away as they realize that they can be in control of their lives.
“I see it when she is speaking to a group of orphaned teenagers about how to believe in themselves and they are crying with joyful tears because they can feel her love, too.
I see it when thousands of high school girls are screaming as if the Beatles just arrived and they just want to shake her hand because they know that she took charge to become successful in her life and they want to do the same in their own lives.
“I see her love when she opens her arms to someone who is completely depressed and a complete wreck from a tragic death in the family, and she just gives the person the longest hug and a comforting shoulder to cry on.
“I see it when she receives letters from all over the world from people who were positively affected by her books and her lectures. I see her love in the care that she has for those closest to her, in her desire to help them to become the best that they can be. I see it when we all gather for family time together and end up laughing hysterically for hours when we have a joke telling contest.
“I see it at Christmas time when she is giving out gifts to whoever comes to visit her home even when they never expected to receive anything.
“I see her love when she is teaching Jung Suwon class. I see her love when she is praying at church. I see her love all the time. That is why I love her.
“You say you all are “healing” by talking about your experiences from 10 or more years ago…. Real healing would be trying to learn something from all the experiences you have had in your lives, remembering the good times and moving forward.
“Think of it as overcoming the challenges in your life and use it to show yourself and whoever else that you are strong enough to move forward.
“If you are interested, check out this site: http://www.spiritofmaat.com, It’s pretty cool. It shows how the power of your thought can actually physically affect you and your environment.
“I’m done now. Sorry for the lengthy post. I’ve been brewing for quite some time now.
Sarah Kim said, “A few weeks ago, when I was so pissed off at all of you for taking every situation and twisting into something negative, for giving me a reason to swear more in the course of 5 days than I have sworn in the previous 38 years of my life, … Grandmaster asked me to send Love to all of you. Imagine that. How can someone, the target of so much negativity and hateful comments, ask me to send Love to all of you? It is way beyond me.
“But, because I respect Grandmaster Kim as my teacher, my mentor and my martial arts Master, that is what I started to do.
“My prayers changed from “Dear God, please help me to shut them up” to “Dear God, please help me to forgive them and please help them to heal their hearts.”
“I am not going to get into a debate, defend anything I’ve said or answer any more questions here. If you want to express something or ask something, feel free to send me an email.
“I can’t guarantee that I will respond right away as I’m pretty busy these days so don’t feel offended if you don’t get an instant response. I will do my best to respond to all emails that are mature, responsible and respectful.
Otherwise, good luck with your lives. I hope with your consciences, you are able to have a happy and fulfilling life! I know I will. Peace, Sarah
Sarah continued, PS2: Sorry, this section has nothing to do with the rest of my post, but I have to point out these things:
“It’s also funny, Anne, because you said that Grandmaster Kim makes fun of other women’s looks because she is jealous, but haven’t you been making fun of Grandmaster Kim’s looks this whole time? What does that say about you?
“And Kathy, in one of your very enlightening posts, you said: “People that have to call people names are the ones that are really lacking Chica. It is a way of building them up by trying to bring you down.”
“Now, Kathy, why don’t you go and reread all 2,000+ posts and count the number of different not-so-nice names that you and everyone else here have called Grandmaster Kim….hmmm.”
Kathy said, “Sarah, Gosh I thought I wasn't even worthy of being mentioned! Nice post sk. Lots of it I know nothing about. But you see, some I do know about. I do know about the arranged marriages. Your “hubby” volunteered to marry Carrie. So did Michael F.. Then DP was gone and so KW ended up back there and married to Michael F.. What happened to that marriage?
“I know why they wanted to recruit you when you came. You had skills they wanted. You were easy to mold.
“As far as name calling “who called me the cockroach'? Tae Yun is very immature in something’s. Name calling doesn't bother me. I said she had a flat head, but she does. I'm fat, so what. But I will put my truth next to Tae Yun's any day and I bet you she can't measure up.
“Sarah, why do you think her last husband left her? What did she tell you? Why did I leave? Because her lies were going to be the undoing of an unknowing young man who deserved to know the truth about her cancer scare and her ability to have children. He found out the truth and annulled the marriage and never looked back. That is why she hates me. Or do you actually think she is so forgiving she would accept a phone call from me? Or better yet, for me to come visit her?
“It was a well written COL letter though. I bet you get an extra something for it.”
Ryanbeld said, Sarah K., thank you for your post. That was a well written post. I don’t have time to address it fully now because I’m on my way to the bar. Yes I would like to agree that personal stuff is personal, but it just doesn’t work that way when you live in a “community” setting (for a lack of better words). I’m sorry I wasn’t civil 100% of the time but up until now all there was as feedback was personal attacks from nameless people. so we're both guilty of that. what people don't realize is that when something they believe in is under “attack” then judgment is clouded; whether it is anger or whatever.
I have been trying very hard as of late to keep my posts civil because nothing is cut and dry. no one is completely guilty and no one is completely innocent.
“I personally always believed she had cancer, and I still do. but I have also seen the numerous plastic surgery bills and receipts with her signature, whether facelifts are as a result of the cancer I can't say. I was there when we were told she was fighting for her life, both of those times. It’s murky water to tread into. She is both a saint and a sinner. get used to it. we are all human and we are all going to kick the bucket one day. I know what I saw and heard when I was there and I know the rest from talking to many people. I wont tell you what you know and you don’t tell me what I know. So please give her my love too. because as I said before I don't hate her. I just had to do what I had to do to get the truth. the same goes for her, if she wanted to talk to me, she knows how.”
Then Jacob said, “pat, I was correcting sak that GM was never there.. I didn’t say anything about your mom.
“Sak (Sarah) I remember not hearing from Patrick for months and months until one day, I heard he was in jail and who came to bail you out? You’ve already talked about this on this forum. It was Grandmaster.
“Sarah K., please enlighten us with Kim’s credentials. In fact just edit the wiki document on bullshido.org, with cert #, and anything else you have.”
Kathy Kim said, “Hey Jacob....you aren't holding your breath are ya? If she had them (credentials) they would have been on show a long time ago. But then again I never said there was anything wrong with her training. course what do I know about that. I did go to other schools, at her request, and their testing was nothing compared to the testing at JSW. But then again, why have titles, when you haven't earned them.....But why does she have so many security precautions if she is so masterful? She sees and knows all and can beat the best of the best? To me it seems like the people that can foresee the future....then why do they have to charge money for their info, just pick the right lotto numbers....never need to work again. I'll stand by my karma begets karma....”
And Jacob said, “Not holding my breath! She claims it exists, I want to see it.”
Kathy Kim said. “I bet it is on order as we speak..... Course it is probably so long ago the person that issued it has passed on, or the registrar has been lost or burned. but they do have a duplicate. But I don't know what is required to do what she does. that is as far as martial arts is concerned. Seems like some were able to know where she got her black belt. I think there has been some very intensive investigating. Let's see the response....
“Chica, do you think they just appeared out of no where? You were there for a little bit, did you ever see them? But I just don't think her credentials are going to be her main concern. Especially in the near future.”
David Sims said, “Dear Sarah, thank you very much for your last post; it was easily the most informative thing to come out of COL to date, and it provided much food for thought. As a quick response, I would like to make a couple of observations that I would love to hear your thoughts on.
“Firstly, you described the aid that Tae Yun Kim has given to students and how this has impressed you; helping an old man stretch, teaching excited young children, etc. Everything that you described sounded wonderful. The only problem is that you seem to think that it is extraordinary. I have seen many teachers do the same thing; ordinary, average martial arts teachers, who claimed no special status or rank but who were passionate about teaching. Every week I watch my judo instructor patiently working with small children, helping them to build character as well as learn technique. He would be the first to tell you that he is not anyone great in the judo world; certainly not a “grandmaster.” The qualities that you describe can be found in any decent martial arts instructor, of whom there are many. Can you tell me what sets Tae Yun Kim apart, what makes her something unique?
“Thanks again for your input, and I hope that you will continue to post on this thread. It is nice to see the other side of the debate participating, and I will look forward to reading your perspective on other points. Best, David Sims.
“PS: Can someone who practices Korean martial arts tell me if the title “grandmaster” is common to those arts? In Japanese martial arts, it would be the height of bad form to allow someone to refer to you as a master, and I am trying to see if I am dealing with a cultural divide here or if Kim's use of this title is really unusual.”
Yeoman said, “Sarah Alex Kim - I call things as I see them, and your post, a jeremiad of your life experience, was very interesting to read.
“I know you will say I am psychoanalyzing you, but that is not the case. I do not have the skills nor credentials to do that. I work from common sense and street smarts and my interaction with others, as well as a bit of education in a specialized field.
“I do not belittle your achievements nor your attachment to your husband or to Tae Yun. I must point out to you however, the empirical evidence that calls into question the validity of Tae Yun's status as a grandmaster as well as the many court documents that have been put forth on cultmaster. There is no denying the existence of these, they cannot be forged, they are on record, both in California and Vermont, and perhaps others states that we have yet to hear from. So, despite your admonition, and even if all of Asia hates me for this, I remain: Yeoman.”
Juliana said, “I do not know if Tae Yun ever had cancer or not....it's hard to discern the truth as the stories she tells about her health have not jived with the evidence I've seen thus far.
“Cancer is a serious disease and shouldn't be thrown around just to get attention. Before the first major breast related surgery that Tae Yun had, I had a very personal one-on-one conversation with her where this is what she told me. Tae Yun came into the sewing room late at night after everyone in COL went back to their respective rooms and homes.
“She commonly would come back and visit me there and we would have private conversations there. On this one particular night she came in and her demeanor was very somber, serious and quiet. I asked her if everything was alright. Then with tears in her eyes, she explained that she was about to go under surgery for a condition where one of her breast bones was pressing too close to her lungs, so they had to go in there and fix this problem. I asked her why and how this happened.....she never mentioned cancer.... she only said it was because of her small stature and that everything was in such close proximity that it caused this unusual condition.
“Later I too saw the scars, as I often saw her with areas unclothed as I was doing fittings for her. I also know she openly shared her scars with many people. They were some of the worst scars I had ever seen, it's true. Often I visited the UCLA plastic and reconstructive surgery department, as we worked directly with their staff with products that Can Do Spirit manufactured. In one of my many visits to see the Chief of Staff at UCLA's plastic and reconstructive surgery department along with the rest of the staff that worked on her during these series of surgeries, they often would bring up Tae Yun's recovery from the “Flap Surgery”. So was it cancer? They never mentioned the “C” word. Tae Yun never told me that. And since then I've seen clear evidence that she's had not one, but two breast implant surgeries. Flap surgery is a common surgery for both mastectomy patients and breast implants that have gone bad. So I don't know.
“I believe the only reason all of these things have come under question and we're talking about her very personal business is because many of us have learned that Tae Yun would strongly tell us one thing, but lived quite another. It's very hard to discern what the truth is. If you're going to be the President of a country you come under different scrutiny than the average citizen, as well as a “Dr. Great Grandmaster, Chairman” who considers herself a spiritual leader, teacher and healer of the masses also comes under different scrutiny when she has been caught in a huge web of deceit for her own personal advancement and gratification. I have seen no evidence of what “good” she has done for the masses. If you have evidence beyond helping a child feel good about themselves in a martial arts class or an elderly person stretching, or an annual fan letter from one of her books that was written by a ghost writer...... I would love to hear of it.
“Otherwise, unfortunately I'm sure she is going to continually be under the microscope when people find out that she's been living quite another life than she has been preaching. She put herself in the position of scrutiny, no one else.
“And quite honestly, I'm quite tired of all the “same old stories” I've heard for many, many years of how ....I had a poor childhood and Tae Yun helped me.....blah, blah, blah. Let's face it Sarah, you lived a very “silver spoon” type of lifestyle.....no comparison to what the COL children lived.
“And in regards to the hours you keep.....LOL.....me too, I go to sleep near midnight and wake up anywhere between 6-8am....so what! And you know and I know, that maybe that happens sometimes, but quite frequently we were kept up all night and into the morning and you were one of the people who were called out quite frequently for falling asleep during those late night and all night classes. And how many times during the day do you fall asleep at your computer and at the wheel of the car. I suppose that suddenly stopped too? I don't expect you to admit that it's the truth, but remember there are more witnesses to these accounts than just myself. And remember there were more witnesses to the beating you took in your private area from Tae Yun. So maybe you don't remember these things, but others do.
“Are we really achieving anything here? He said, she said....and so on and so on. Don't worry COL, if Tae Yun hasn't done anything and everything is on the up and up then all of this therapeutic outpouring of someone's experiences and their first amendment expressions are just that and she shouldn't have any worries at all. One way or the other, the truth always seems to find it's way out eventually.”
Then ihadnoidea said, “SarahAlexKim, Thank you for your thorough post. I can tell you put a lot of thought into it. I appreciate your candor. Though I don't know you very well, I will take it on faith all you write is honest, just like we do everyone else (well, except those few that come up to provoke and name call).
“I can see you were trying to point out to Chica that everyone has some adjustments to make with their parents as they come of age. … After I read your post I wondered if you were ever afforded that opportunity. I hope so.
“Although, I do think Chica's upbringing was untraditional at best. At worst, it looks as if there were some instances of neglect...emotional and physical. Minor they might seem to other adults, to a child that is a huge issue and it makes a mark on them for life. So, though Chica seems to have turned out an exceptional adult. it doesn't negate her experiences or her feelings of anger toward Tae Yun and her mother and stepfather. She has the guts to talk about her experiences in an effort to help other teenagers make an informed decision about training with Tae Yun. Apparently, induction into COL is a big part training and she has first hand knowledge of that process. This is not unlike your comment about your “helping people”.
“Which, frankly puzzles me. Not that I question your desire, I think I disagree with the outcomes. There were only two COL members I had contact with who were ever consistently helpful, kind and professional. One is your spouse by the way. So, when I read and hear of COL members with a mission of helping spread the light or love of Dr. Kim, or of their desire to help people I just don't get it. I rarely experienced that kind of help. In fact, my experience was the opposite. I was often regarded as a means to an end for COL people, and many times I was specifically called out as a stumbling block. Which was surprising since I often held the evidence that I was not the problem, but the one pointing out the problem.
“I can specifically remember a few times where a COL member berated me for reasons utterly beyond my control, influence or even involvement. Thankfully I had the presence of mind to be able to respond reasonably in the face of such bizarre and unprofessional behavior and defend myself. But not everyone who I knew was able to deflect the irrational accusations on a daily basis. I know a quite a few people who where treated in an abusive manner in the workplace...all of those abusing were COL members. There were so many days I had to call someone outside of the company and ask, “is this best practice for a company?” or “Does this occur in your company?” to ensure I wasn't crazy and that my instincts were correct. Tae Yun does not run a professional environment, and she does not run a company that is bent on helping people.
“If she did it would be exceedingly apparent by her followers. After some 10,15 and 20 years under her tutelage, they should be the most helpful and genial people in the planet (in my opinion).
“That was not the case, and I was there long enough to know. I wish you all the best Sarah, and I still hope you and your spouse will leave Tae Yun and have a new life all your own. You are both smart and could do so much more for humanity apart from Tae Yun.”
Kathy said, “My family and some friends hate me keeping the name Kim. It doesn't bother me. It probably bothers Tae Yun that I still use the name she gave me. Gabi took the kim name when she divorced and so did I. I divorced while in COL too. Tae Yun figured that was too many Kim’s so she gave Gabi the name Sommers. It just surprises people that I am not Asian when they meet me.
“I know how Tae Yun feels about energy. That I still have pictures and such, bothers them, not me. If anything in enforces my desire to help people know the truth of her training and teachings. I always say, I used to be in a cult. I didn't know it when I was there, but did when I got out. Tae Yun has a way of just making everything seem so natural. There is nothing wrong with what I teach, she says. After all these years and to see people leave with not only mixed feelings of self, but with no money after all the work they did, is a real eye opener of her greed and her true self.”
Juliana said, “For all of you at COL, I'm sure you're thinking...Why are these people speaking up about all the things that we weren't supposed to speak up about. Why did we break the code of silence that we were so loyal to? Let me explain and maybe it will help you understand that this isn't a matter of whether we love or hate Tae Yun or any of you.
“As many COL students are, I was recruited through JSW. Tae Yun singled me out and started inviting me to “special” events which all seemed as a wonderful and honorable extension of my JSW training. Then I was invited into COL, which was portrayed as an extension of our JSW training where we trained at an elevated level. If at that moment I was informed of what that “elevated” level of training was, I would have been able to have the free will to make a choice that I could have lived with, but the truth wasn't explained to me. And one of the reasons that the truth wasn't spoken to me is because it was explained to me through other students who didn't actually know all the “truth” or had experienced “the abuse” yet.
“If someone had said, ok....this is what is going to be expected of you....you will lose the ability to raise your son or get to know your grandchildren, you will expected to be celibate, you will not have free will to leave when you're ready to, you will experience both physical and emotional abuse, you will not have health insurance for extended times, you will not have a financial way to secure your retirement.....and the list goes on. The problem is by the time that level of training is unfolded to you, you are so deeply conditioned and controlled financially, mentally, physically and emotionally that it's very difficult to see what has happened.
“So all that is happening on this forum is a disclosure process of what each person has gone through....so that hopefully the next person can make a decision to be involved with Tae Yun from a more truth disclosed perspective.”
Then Jacob said, “'Ryan pretty much told me it sucked. I accidentally let it slip in conversation with JW, and suddenly I'm in my first “private” class with Ryan in Kim's office... before COL even started. I should have heeded Ryan’s warning.”
“Juliana said, ...you will expected to be celibate, you will not have free will to leave when you're ready to, you will experience both physical and emotional abuse, ....
“On the whole celibate thing. There was a lot of implication that there would be someone in COL for you. Let's be real, a lot of the people join COL because they get sick of the singles scene (as JSWStudent/Sarah K., I believe it was pointed out)
“When you were being recruited it was made very clear to you who all of the couples were, even the couples who were recently assigned (that didn't make any sense).
“I knew I would live separate from you but I didn't think your parental rights would be taken away until you hugged me or something, chica reported it, and we all got disciplined for it. (I don't actually remember the exact circumstances)
“It's kind of like they sold us what looked like a BMW 7-Series, but in fact was a ford tempo. (since a lot of COL members had those at the time it seemed an appropriate analogy)”
Kathy said, “Same as when I was recruited Juliana...I was at the grocery store shopping and Michael F. called me and asked what I was doing, then he said, “would you like to come have dinner with us right now?” I was thrilled. I went to the house. There was just Tae Yun and the instructors. It was a great meal. I didn't cook or help with the dishes or anything.
“It was after that that I was approached about living in a newly started women's COL that they were going to form. So I joined. But it was so much easier back then on us adults. Not the kids, but easier on us. I gave away all my personal stuff. Donated my appliances to COL for the men. They were 5 years old so it was ok. Then later, I sold my home here in Oregon. But that is another story. My son lived with his father too. He wanted to; his dad was more lenient than I was. I'm glad he had that time with his grandma before she died too. So is he. I'm glad he wasn't in col.
“I learned a lot at col. But I also went back to college after I left there. I was in my 40's at the time. with a gpa of 3.75. Darn English professor, I could have had a 4.0. You can never learn too much as far as I am concerned. So the learning isn't a factor in hating col...it is the underhanded stuff that hurts you. Then the betrayal of feelings. The giving all and then being taken for more.
“To have to remain celibate and then you find out about Tae Yun's sexual life that is really low. Of course she wants young guys...they are in their sexual prime. The hard part for the females is they will pass up their childbearing years by staying with her.
“In a way it is a good thing as they can't bring someone else into the world to be raised like Chica and Ryan was. Though they are working through how they were raised and should be commended on the good job. Clar also.”
Michael Gatov, or Shadow Dancer said, “Hello Sarah, I would like to commend you on an excellently written reply. I honestly found it moving. You have a great future ahead of you in spin control.
“At the end of your post, when the sound of the violins was dying away, I had an awakening moment like Conan the Barbarian had when he almost fell under Tulsa Doom's sway at the end of the movie. I shook myself awake and said: “whoa... this is bull! I lived through COL and I know what went on there!” An ounce of experience is worth a ton of spin control. You may be able to sway those who weren't there, but to those of us who were... we still carry the emotional scars.
“Has the ink dried yet on Kim’s new certificates? When I was there between 85 and 92, we could never find them. We were told they had been destroyed in a fire. Or was it that the Mountain Master didn't give out certificates? Or was it that they were filed away in boxes and if really needed, they could be dug up? You see, there were many reasons given why they couldn't be produced. The man who brought her to America, the man who trained along side her, can more accurately tell us about her training than those of you who have come on the scene decades after the events. Should we believe him, or Kim... who has a ravenous lust for titles and honors?
“I noticed on the forum that you are trying to explain that the term 'grandmaster' may have a different meaning in Korea than it does here. Good luck in trying to convince us that she is humble and not a grasping social climber. What else can be tacked to her name? Instead of: “Dr. Chairman CEO Great-Grandmaster”, why not call her “Dear Leader” and be done with it? Oh wait... that name is already in use by another Korean.
“Her “Dr.” title is honorary (possibly bought with a donation). Honorary degrees do not confer the right to use the title “Dr.” She is CEO in name only. Does she understand the technology?
“Does she contribute to the planning of future products? Can she read a financial statement? Could she function as the head of a company that isn't founded and run by her students? Do you really expect any of us to believe that she and Steve Jobs are business equals? Have any other companies tried to recruit her to run their businesses? At every trade show she showed up at, she was the laughing stock of other exhibitors. Back when I was in COL, I had to do a lot of spin control with other industry players.
“I won't begrudge her the title “Chairman”. A company can choose anyone they want to be their head. Though, I think LHA would do better with Pee Wee Herman at their head.
“Finally, since the only evidence of her martial rank is 3rd Dan, where does she get the right to call herself “Grandmaster”? I remember a bureaucrat from some Korean federation flew over to give her an honor. She got a black belt, a certificate, and a plastic key-chain. Is this the deep respect, you mentioned, that the Korean federations have for her? Kim told us this was a great honor... on par with getting a Nobel Prize. Yeah, right cough. Who were the previous recipients of that award? Who got it last year? Who knows? Who cares?
“So far, the most credible evidence comes from the man who found her and brought her to America. And that is that Kim is an ex prostitute who reached 3rd dan in Tang Soo Do. Everything else she got by manipulating people into doing things for her, or in finding ways to gain accolades through means other than actually earning them.
“Let us know when you get her new 'old' certificates off the printing press. Let the ink dry before you scan them, otherwise they may get smeared.”
Her Lesson said, “As Yeoman posted “to change ones name is to destroy any vestige of their past identities”. Tae Yun is the one that needed to change her name to destroy any vestige of her past identities. Follow her past to VT, is there any good from her past? Follow her to CA, is there any good? Or was there destruction, companies closed, fraud, peoples lives destroyed?
“What you sow you will reap, Tae Yun. Didn't it come back to you when you married again and it was annulled? Wasn't it because of your past? As before, what you have sowed, you will reap! And secrets will be exposed.
“COL'ers, aren't you all tired of putting out fires for her instead of moving forward, you are always cleaning up her past. As I mentioned before, you are all like a big shovel cleaning up after the elephant parade. Clean up your own careers and finances. Look out for your own futures and old age. Who is going to take care of you as you have been so busy taking care of her needs you have had no time for yourselves.”
David Sims said, “So far, nothing new on the email front. Really, if Sarah has solid evidence of Tae Yun's certificates and such, it would probably be just as well to have them posted here or on one of Tae Yun's websites rather than use me as a middleman, but if I receive the information I will do what I can to verify it one way or the other. It would be rather interesting if she has actual ranks issued by legitimate organizations, but at the moment I doubt it.
“As most of you already know, there are swarms of “mutual appreciations societies” in the martial arts world. If I remember correctly, one example of this has a name like the International Brotherhood of Head founders.
“If you have founded your own martial art, you can pay a membership fee to this organization in return for them sending you a certificate recognizing you as a 10th degree black belt and the head & founder of your school. Most martial artists that I would consider legitimate don't bother with such things because they don't feel that they need a piece of paper to back them up (and most have pieces of paper issued by other, legitimate organizations to begin with). Frauds, however, love such organizations it's the martial arts equivalent of one of those online degree mills where you pay $200 and they send you a “non-accredited PhD” that isn't worth the paper that it is printed on. If COL tells us who issued Tae Yun's certificates, people will have the ability to judge for themselves whether she is keeping company with legit groups or not.”
Shadow Dancer said, “I remember a COL meeting one night just after the annulment with SE was granted. Kim told all of us how appalled the judge was at his behavior and how he had granted Kim the judgment based on SE's 'fraud'. Everyone there chirped up like obedient parakeets about how wonderful it was that the judge gave her justice. Of course, no such thing happened. SE got the annulment based on Kim’s fraud.
“When SE first escaped, and Kim was trying everything to get him back, an interesting discussion took place at COL 1. I listened to Kim, Scott and MF talk about how they would teach SE a lesson once he got back. At the minimum they would make him sleep out on the deck like a dog.”
Lesson said, “I believe Tae Yun harasses, bugs phones, damages cars, throws cell phones at them in the car, she does this because she will not let go. Not only are the reasons you stated but if her “failed students” succeed in proving she is a fraud, she might lose face with her present cult members. They just might be on the fence and if she fails, she might lose them. I heard she has even threatened them to the point where they are afraid to continue with the suit or whatever they have on her.
“She is like a wood tick, once she burrows into your mind, she won't let go because if she does, then she is a loser. I would like to re-emphasize my previous posting:
“Even after leaving the group or relationship, many former devotees carry a burden of guilt and shame while they continue to regard their former leader as paternal, all-good, and godlike. This is quite common in those who “walk away” from their groups, especially if they never seek the benefits of an exit counseling or therapy to deal with cult-related issues. This same phenomenon is found in battered women and in children who are abused by their parents or other adults they admire. To heal from a traumatic experience of this type, it is important to understand who and what the perpetrator is. As long as there are illusions about the leader's motivation, powers, and abilities, those who have been in his grip deprive themselves of an important opportunity for growth:
“The chance to empower themselves, to become free of the tyranny of dependency on others for their well-being, spiritual growth, and happiness.
“Shadow, you and Kathy have a wealth of info, thank you for sharing.”
Her Lesson said, “Chica, what the COL'ers say is of no consequence. They are not conversing through honesty or what is real. They are talking through Tae Yun, her beliefs, her thoughts and what she wants to convey.
“I have seen and heard, not just myself but by other ex-members, of what goes on. Just ask your father what Tae Yun did to his marriage. All marriages have problems, she makes sure it is brought to the forefront. It is not a marriage if you call your husband “Sir”, it is not a marriage if your husband is in another country for a year without seeing him.
“When I talk about intimacy, it is not only about sleeping with someone. It is personal, private and sharing each others thoughts, life and future. You can almost finish each others sentences. How can you have that when you call him “Sir”. Tae Yun does not allow intimacy. The only thing she allows is for everyone to give up their thoughts, carry her picture and the only thing she allows couples to share is her. And even then, couples are in competition to get close to her.
“So, no, what Sarah has to say, I know who's mouth it is coming from, holds no merit. Tae Yun is a cult leader, etc. and Sarah is a cult follower.
Shadow Dancer said, “Yo Yeoman (couldn't resist), Kathy will know more about the departure, but I was brought in after he left to try and get him back. They were still married at the time.
“Here is part of an old journal entry back from '93 (which I wrote when I was having internal conflicts. The occurrences had happened earlier.
“There were some things about Grandmaster’s behavior at the end that have me wondering. When I flew Grandmaster and Scott to Salt Lake City to try and sort things out with SE (Spencer Eccles), there was an occurrence that caused me to mentally pause and wonder what Reality was. We were in the car and were trying to contact Gary in an effort to enlist his aid in contacting SE. When Grandmaster was talking to us before the call, she was focused and emotionally seething. When she was on the phone to Gary, she was broken, sobbing, and begging. When she hung up, she was immediately focused and seething angry. Which were the real emotions? She could project anything she wanted, and she did. I wondered what type of persona she would have projected if she got SE on the phone. If she can change her emotions so quickly, then how can I know that what she shows me is real or not?
“When Grandmaster returned and met with her Bishop and Home Teacher, she repeated the same theater, but this time it was slightly different. She would start sobbing uncontrollably, with tears and mucus freely flowing and Instructors rushing up to her to wipe her nose. The moment after the Bishop left, she was back in complete control of herself and was making new strategies. The emotions changed much too quickly to have been genuine. I could hardly believe my eyes. as I watched the change take place.”
Kathy said, “Wow this is the first I heard of the million dollars....another lie? I'm sure the family would pay 100 times that much to get their son away. But she wasn't paid off. He came back and saw the lies were the truth and he left. No second chance, no explaining, he was just gone. She couldn't give a deposition, I was at the ready to contradict what she would have said. I had first hand knowledge. I wasn't going to be frightened off. It was the truth, and I would tell it. I had facts and dates was even there, so there was no Dr patient confidentiality. Her lies had caught up to her. She hated that she wasn't the one issuing the orders and the one in charge. I guess that is why she told the story that he was the one that committed fraud.
“It was totally SE's decision to leave her. He wanted the annulment. He made the decision, not his family. But his family would have backed him on whatever his decision was.
“Tae Yun didn't have anything that SE wanted, he wanted to make sure he got his few belongings back however. There wasn't much there as he had been away skiing. The reason Tae Yun went to New Zealand was to be with him, no other reason.
“If it is just a dream, it was good. Live your life. Enjoy who you want and go where you want. Eventually things will be easier for you to accept. Life is too short, no one gets out of it alive, not even Tae Yun. We are all accountable for our actions and let him be the one to decide what our just rewards are.”
Kathy said, “Lots of time when women get older and they can't control their emotions they need hormone pills. I know if I didn't have mine it was horrible. After 29 years I am finally giving them up, and that isn't too easy. I tried at Christmas time, ended up calling my Dr saying I need some pills before I kill someone. I really feel that the lack of estrogen can cause mood swings. Maybe I'm not the only one that needs them? Maybe if someone else used them they would be more functional, have less outbursts. Not mentioning any names Tae Yun. :) I'm not saying her behavior is all hormonal, seeing how she thinks she isn't the same as other females, but above them. But it might help her.
“Yes she came after me. Not herself personally but she sent people after me. She even had that Pellacano Attorney, call me and try to scare me off. Problem was I was living with my friend and her husband was a cop. Not only did I have a conversation with him, so did my friend the cop. This was in 92 I believe.
“She had me find out where JAB was too. She wants to know where everyone is. I personally think it is paranoia. From all the people that she has done things to, she fears Karma may come get her. So she can be prepared when and if they do come. Or she can be on top of things so she says they are her super unnatural powers. Like her flying into your room at night.”
Kathy said, “Yes Her Lesson, she says energy has no boundaries. Chica could probably explain more. I'm touching her picture right now, does that mean she feels it? I have it right here next to me. Along with the picture of Scott and I that was taken when him and I went to Sacramento for Pete Wilson's inauguration. I still have all the magazines that we had to buy that she was on the cover of. Several 7 Steps books too. If she is coming to me, uninvited, I have been able to block her out as I don't feel a thing. Maybe energy goes away after a while? Who knows? Someday I will have a bond fire with all the stuff I have hung onto over the years. Course some of the paperwork you never know when it will come in handy.”
Jacob said, “Chicabonita said, People didn't change their names when they joined COL. That happened after they were in COL. We weren't forced to change our names as there are some people that chose not to. I for one, did not change it as I was happy with my name.
“The first time people changed their names I was 10. We had a COL class and I fell asleep in the other room. When I woke up the next morning half the room had name changes. It was hard to keep track of the first couple of weeks.
“After that it happened more on an individual basis. People asked Tae Yun for her advice and she would come up with names for them. Most of the time people asked her for suggestions.
“There are allegations that it was suggested that people change their names after they've bankrupted themselves from maxing out all their credit for her. Maybe someone can elaborate on that.
“Although it is already known that people in COL had serious financial issues and declared bankruptcy. I remember one morning I was supposed to be taken to school but didn't make it on time as the person's car was repossessed. And of course like I mentioned before, creditors called LWS.
“There is name changes that preceded you... Ever heard of a member name roque?
“I don't think anyone was “forced” but I think the steak knives went hand in hand with the name change. So.... I think things may have happened where it wasn't a choice that you may have not been privy to.
“The name was of an instructor... You served the point however... The first name change I have record of was 1984.”
Yeoman said, “One of my contacts states that “roque” is Roch Lalonde, who is a Canadian. That is how he was known in Vermont. That person is no longer with Tae Yun Kim, and is now known as David Pariseau.”
Shadow said, “As for being 'outed'... well, to those in COL, everyone there knows who I am and what my screen name is. As for the rest of the world, I would have rather kept it private since I am ashamed of ever having been a part of COL and the changed lives it brought to my wife and kids. It also did me untold professional damage once it became apparent that I was associated with them. Those days are long past now, and I'm in a different stage of my life, but I'm still not fond of my name being published on a forum where I'm trying to come to grips with what happened to me in the past. How popular do you think you would you be if you published the names of people who are in a local Alcoholic Anonymous chapter?”
Kathy said in reply to Chica’s deleted post, “The house on Shetland was the women's first COL Chica. They had bought the house in Fremont. So us females move into Hetland and Tae Yun moved into the one in Fremont. Then The guys moved into an old house I was renting there in Milpitas. They only stayed there a few months as they bought the other house down the street from the Fremont house. When they bought the other house in Fremont it became #2 because Scott was there and some of the guys. That is why the women became #3. I don't know if they ever gave your old condo a number or not. But the guys then moved into there. This all happened the last of 89 or start of 90. Now was that clear as mud?
“I also don't remember if they gave the home you kids were staying at a number or not. Maybe your old condo there in Milpitas was col#4? You can have that traffic in Milpitas though. Course it is getting bad here too. At least everything is close though.”
And Shadow Dancer said, “Chicabonita, This is correct. We asked Sarah candid questions. And for the most part, we got no answers. And when we did, they were canned. Completely avoiding questions about experiences or specifics about how Tae Yun helped her.
“To COL, I would like to refocus your attention back to the main issue. According to the person who married Kyong-Ae, and brought her to the USA, he met her when she was hooking out of a bar near a military base. They trained together and she never tested above 3rd dan. Based upon that information, her Buddhist master in the mountains story is apparently a fraud. Have you ever seen her participate in sparring in class? You haven't been able to provide any documentation that she is recognized as a 'grandmaster' by reputable MA associations. Why do you think this is?
“As sad as it may seem, we all were conned by a hooker. Look at the cruel punishments she meted out on people. Do those seem to be the actions of a 'grandmaster'? She can't even control her jealous anger. Is that the behavior of a 'grandmaster'? Was Leona Helmsley a 'grandmaster'?
“Were the 'praying', meditating, and MA demonstrations reputable actions of a CEO? Do you think she was respected by the business folk who were held captive in those meetings? When she minced around Semicon West in a miniskirt, carrying a flute, do you think she had any respect in the industry? She is a leech on the neck of LWS. What contributions do you think she makes to the company to earn her meaty fat salary? Does she understand lasers? What about programming? Does she know what a Brewster mirror is? At the very least, can she tell you whether the particle sensors are active or passive cavity? Could she operate the LMS software? She basically doesn't know squat about the company she is the 'CEO' of.
“You talk about her 'helping people'. Well, compare her actions to those of social workers, or hospice workers, or even people who volunteer at the humane society. You'll find that her 'help' is pretty weak (at best) or self-serving (usually). So... she helped some senior citizen stretch in a MA class. Let's alert the media!!! Whoopee... she did what teachers have been doing for centuries... namely doing their job.
“Is RP walking yet? Why did KW have to go to Dr. Steadman to get her knees repaired? Kyong-Ae is supposed to be such a great healer, yet the people on whose backs she is standing aren't even helped.
“Wake up! You've been conned by (a fallen woman) who is using you like ATM machines. How long are you going to let yourselves be bled dry?”
Shadow said, “What's sick is that she probably was just trying to figure out who still had some money to give her. It reminds me of a time when she tried to get everyone to get complete physicals. When it started to be suspected that it was a way to weed out people who might have a serious illness, so they wouldn't be around her, they quieted down about wanting it done.
“Hey... if any of you COL'ers think she will really be there for you if you get sick, look at how they barely tolerated JC when she had her problems. There is no two-way camaraderie. It is all about kim. Once you become compromised in some way, you aren't worth a squirt of piss to them.”
“Dear COL'ers...Just do a bit of a calculation here...You are maxed out on debt, you get sick and can suddenly no longer work to bring income into the group, you require some hospitalization or devoted care for a while...and kim wants some more plastic surgery...who do you think is going to get the money for the treatment, and who do you think is going to be 'encouraged' to suck it up and make do with nothing?
Her Lesson said, “Chicabonita, Most people in COL don't believe she's even had plastic surgery. They think she is all energy. They also think that because they are her “warriors” that they can overcome anything with her energy. If they don't then they're not channeling hard enough. Or they're not being persistent enough in asking her for help.
“They don't realize that this will all catch up to them soon. Most at least still have their health now. What will happen when that is taken away? How will Tae Yun treat them then? (But if the leader is a fraud and a con artist, then that makes me a gullible fool. So the leader must be a saint, because I'd rather not be a fool...)”
And Shadow said, “I think to understand this situation, you have to 'follow the money'. If I were to have been allowed to care for you kids even half the time, there would have been no child support going to ES.... and through her, to kim.
“During the brief time I was allowed to have you kids live with me, I cooked for you, took care of you when you were sick, did the laundry... generally did the best that I could to make it a home life. Then one day, kim took you guys away, and that was that. Do you remember the time we lived together? Perhaps kim was worried because we were getting along fine and forming a tight knit family. I love you kids, and am glad we can heal the BS divisions kim tried to form between us.”
Yeoman said, “I first need to address Tae Yun Kim's assertion that she changed this lesbian into a straight person (a student named From). Being gay is not a choice, it is an orientation one is born with. Tae Yun Kim didn't change anyone, anymore than these wacko fundamentalists like Love Won Out or Exodus made people go straight. It's all about appearances, and these people may put on a veneer of straightness, but that's all. There is a very high rate of recidivism for those that enter going straight programs. Gayness is not a disease. Of course, as you now all know, I live in a state well known for it's liberal attitudes, and we tolerate diversity, and you are fairly free to live your life as you wish, “as long as you don't scare the horses”. I thought California was pretty liberal too, so why is Tae Yun Kim even focusing on this subject?
“Next - that Tae Yun Kim is into the ménage a trois thing goes along with her private liberal views, at least for her own needs. Porn, phone sex, and God knows what kink she might be into trying. For someone whose original profession required a blasé attitude toward sexual variations, I think three ways are quite believable. If it were to happen, how would she maintain the respect of anyone? In time, this would be known among the other students, at which time Madame would deny it and humiliate the person who let out that information.
“She's a black widow - lures people into her bed and then destroys them after mating.”
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